HC Deb 29 January 1963 vol 670 cc738-9
21. Mr. G. Thomas

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he will publish his recent official correspondence with Western Ground Rents, Limited concerning the prices they charge for the sale of freeholds or the renewal of leases.

Sir K. Joseph

Copies of a letter which the hon. Member for Cardiff, South East (Mr. Callaghan) sent to Western Ground Rents, Limited, on 6th July, 1961, and of the company's reply were sent to me recently by a member of the company, who thought that the information furnished in reply would be of interest to me. It is not for me to publish these letters.

Mr. Thomas

Am I to understand from that reply that the Minister has not initiated any correspondence with Western Ground Rents? Am I further to understand that the categorical statement which he made from the Box shortly before Christmas that Western Ground Rents was charging reasonable rents was made without any consultation with the firm concerned? On what evidence did the right hon. Gentleman base his statement?

Sir K. Joseph

My right hon. Friend the present Home Secretary, first, and then my predecessor, and then I invited evidence of hardship. A number of letters were sent to my Department and these were studied. It was on the basis of these and the valuers' advice on these that I made the statement to which the hon. Member refers.

Mr. Gower

Is my right hon. Friend aware that we have been assured by some of the larger freeholders in South Wales that the terms they ask are reasonable? If they are reasonable, would it not be an advantage to the freeholders as well as the leaseholders, in view of the high incidence of these tenancies, if there were some sort of tribunal which would show that they are reasonable?

Sir K. Joseph

I do not want to evade something which my hon. Friend raises, but that is not the question that I am answering at the moment.

Mr. Thomas

But will the right hon. Gentleman tell me whether he made that detailed statement to the House without having had any official communication with the largest ground landlord in South Wales, and whether we are now to assume that since he rejects the letters of people complaining of hardship he has not taken these letters up with Western Ground Rents?

Sir K. Joseph

There are three points here. I did not initiate correspondence, but I was going to say in answer to the next Question but one that I had seen the chairman and general manager of Western Ground Rents and had asked them much the same questions, though not exactly the same, as the hon. Member's hon. Friend whose original letter of 6th July, which is the letter under reference, was sent to Western Ground Rents. After my approach the chairman sent me a copy of the letter which Western Ground Rents originally sent to the hon. Member for Cardiff, South-East (Mr. Callaghan). That is how that letter came into my possession. I did not ignore the letters sent to me about alleged leasehold hardship. I had them carefully studied and I studied them myself. It was on the evidence of those letters that I made my statement about the rents and not on the evidence of anything either discussed by me or exchanged between me and Western Ground Rents in correspondence.

Mr. Thomas

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I will raise the matter again at the earliest possible moment.