HC Deb 23 January 1963 vol 670 cc68-9
22. Commander Courtney

asked the Minister of Defence whether, in view of the considerable operational and technical training problems which will require solution before the first British Polaris submarine joins the fleet, he will approach the United States Secretary of Defence with a view to a loan by the United States Navy to the Royal Navy of one American Mark I Polaris submarine equipped with dummy warheads and provided with adequate United States instructional personnel.

Mr. Thorneycroft

The problem of operational and technical training of crews for British Polaris submarines is among those being discussed with the United States naval authorities. Her Majesty's Government will take whatever steps are necessary in the light of those discussions, but I cannot anticipate their outcome.

Commander Courtney

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that such a loan would be within the spirit of the Nassau agreement? Would not he perhaps further agree that an extension of this principle might provide a distinct contribution towards bridging the so-called missile gap?

Mr. Thorneycroft

The second part of that supplementary question raises a different point. The Question asks about training in particular. The relations between the Royal Navy and the American Navy are extremely close and cordial. These discussions are going very well. I will consider all these suggestions, but at the moment I would rather await the outcome of these discussions.

Mr. Mason

But does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that we shall be subject to adopting the American technique of training and the American communications system for the effectiveness of this Polaris force, and will not this mean that the deterrent will be more American than British?

Mr. Thorneycroft

We do not want to be so jealous that we do not pay the slightest attention to the experience of any other Navy in the operating of these submarines.

Mr. E. L. Mallalieu

Would it not be better to abandon this rather transparent defence of this nuclear deterrent which is supposed to be ours, and get on with some conventional arms of our own?

Mr. Thorneycroft

If we were prepared to strip ourselves of all powers to have any form of nuclear deterrent, yes—but that would be a very large issue.