HC Deb 21 February 1963 vol 672 cc622-4
20. Mr. Loughlin

asked the Minister of Education how many schools in the constituency of West Gloucester have no flush toilets; in which parishes these are situated; and if he will make a statement.

Sir E. Boyle

Eight, in the parishes of Longhope, Sandhurst, Norton, Tirley, Bromesberrow, Down Hatherley, St. Briavels, and Staunton. Tenders have been accepted or are being invited for the provision of water borne sanitation at three of these schools. The managers of three more are preparing schemes for its provision.

Mr. Loughlin

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that it is a bit of a disgrace that in 1963 children attending school should have as their sole sanitary arrangements Elsan buckets? Does he not consider that instead of being complacent and saying that three tenders have been submitted, he should get on with the job and deal with this matter, not only in my constituency but in all the rural areas?

Sir E. Boyle

The hon. Member still carries on the rather curmudgeonly methods of discussion I recall during my term as Financial Secretary. The position is not as bad as some people might think. At Tirley, earth closets have recently been replaced by chemical closets and I am told that there would be technical difficulties in providing waterborne sanitation. My Answer shows that progress is being made.

21. Mr. Loughlin

asked the Minister of Education if he will state the number of schools now used in the constituency of West Gloucestershire and the dates when they were erected.

Sir E. Boyle

There are 85 schools in West Gloucestershire. Of the original buildings 37 were erected before 1875, 28 between 1875 and 1902, nine between 1903 and 1918, five between 1919 and 1944, and six since 1944. Most of them have had recent additions and improvements.

Mr. Loughlin

The right hon. Gentleman would have some difficulty describing my method of discussion on this topic. Would he not agree that it is scandalous that some of the schools which have been in my constituency for a hundred years have not yet been pulled down and replaced? Does he not think that it is about time that he quickly got on with the job?

Sir E. Boyle

I hope that the hon. Member has taken note of the last sentence of my Answer, which said that most of the 85 schools have had recent additions and improvements. I hope that the hon. Member will also remember that, quite apart from the fabric of schools, the quality of the teaching is also of great importance. The Government have deliberately given first priority to expanding the supply of teachers in the primary schools.

Mr. Curran

Can my right hon. Friend give the date when Eton was built?

Sir E. Boyle

It dates from 1440, but I will admit that Eton has had some recent improvements and additions also.

Mr. Wiley

Will the Minister agree that the inquiries of the National Union of Teachers revealed that these conditions are not peculiar to Gloucestershire, but are general? Will he tell the House when he intends to publish the survey his Department has conducted and announce when the school building programme will give priority to bringing the primary schools up to the standard laid down in the building regulations?

Sir E. Boyle

There are three parts to that supplementary question. Firstly, I agree, and I have said, that the National Union of Teachers' survey was a valuable document, but I think that it is fair to say that in its dating of schools it ignored the question of how many Victorian schools have had improvements and additions made to them in this century. Regarding the Ministry's inquiry, I cannot give a date now, but I have said that, as soon as we have fed all the information into the machine and have got the results, I will certainly publish the information in a convenient form. On the third point—the 1965–66 building programme—I hope that the hon. Member will not press me on that too far before we have reached final conclusions on the size of the programme for 1964–65.

Mr. Loughlin

I accept that some schools have had additions and improvements, but would the right hon. Gentleman be prepared to come with me round the schools in my constituency to see how shocking some of them are?

Sir E. Boyle

If the Gloucestershire authority invited me for a visit, and if I could fit it in, I would certainly consider doing so. I do not dispute that many old schools are in need of substantial improvement, but I think that my reply to the hon. Member earlier concerned the kind of thing that can be done by minor works.