HC Deb 16 May 1962 vol 659 cc1320-1
10. Mr. Rankin

asked the Minister of Defence what will be the additional expenditure outside the sterling area as a result of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation defence plan agreed upon at Athens.

Mr. Watkinson

I would refer the hon. Member to my reply to the hon. Member for South Ayrshire (Mr. Emrys Hughes) on 9th May.

Mr. Rankin

But rightly or wrongly, that Answer has been interpreted to mean that there will be no additional expenditure. Does the right hon. Gentleman still accept that interpretation, since the N.A.T.O. frontier will now be advanced almost to the Iron Curtain and that, therefore, there must be new barracks, new troops and new aircraft if this plan is to mature?

Mr. Watkinson

I would remind the hon. Gentleman of my answer last week, when I said: So far as it is possible to estimate at the moment, none of the decisions reached in Athens will involve increased defence expenditure for the United Kingdom."—[OFFCIAL REPORT, 9th May, 1962;Vol. 659, c. 438.] I also, when replying to the right hon. Member for Easington (Mr. Shinwell), said that in the triennial review which starts and goes on for many, many months, all this new strategy will have to be examined. Not until all that examination is finished will we have any idea whether there will or will not be any extra cost.

Mr. Rankin

Is it not fantastic that the right hon. Gentleman should engage in plans, when he evidently has no knowledge of the financial effects involved? Surely he can give the House, in view of the many commitments to which we are attached, some idea of what this is going to cost the Exchequer?

Mr. Watkinson

The hon. Gentleman asked, as did the preceding Question, what was the increased cost of any new defence plan agreed upon at Athens. No new defence plan was agreed upon at Athens. This is a matter which has to be discussed in N.A.T.O. and in the triennial review and the details of this will take a very long time to formulate and work out.

Mr. Paget

Do not let us quibble about this. The right hon. Gentleman has already told us that, whether it is a new plan or not, as a result of Athens we have agreed to perform our treaty obligation as he sees it and increase the forces in Germany by 4,000. Is he now telling us that the 4,000 additional men in Germany involve no additional expenditure outside the sterling area?

Mr. Watkinson

With great respect, I do not think the hon. and learned Gentleman is up to date on what is happening. What is happening is, as I said, that we supported General Norstad's new plans. That is true. The new plans will have to go before the N.A.T.O. political Council to be approved, and they are not formally binding upon us till they are.