HC Deb 14 March 1962 vol 655 cc1302-3
21. Mr. Millan

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland, if he is aware that the Poor's Roll solicitors in Glasgow have been working to rule since 1st March; and what immediate steps he is taking to remedy the breakdown in the Poor's Roll system.

Mr. Maclay

I am aware that the agents for the poor in the Glasgow Sheriff Court have decided to satisfy themselves as to the circumstances of applicants for their services. As regards the second part of the Question, I am unable to add to the reply that I gave the bon. Member for Stirling and Falkirk Burghs (Mr. Malcolm MacPherson) on 9th March.

Mr. Millan

When is the Secretary of State really going to do something about the immediate situation in Glasgow? Is he aware that poor defendants in Glasgow are now being denied legal aid, although agents for the poor are making themselves available, simply because no one is bringing the provisions of the arrangement to their notice? Is he aware that two defendants who applied for a Poor's Roll solicitor last week were remanded in custody for six days? Is not considerable injustice being done to poor defendants in Glasgow, most of whom had previously the benefit of Poor's Roll solicitors? When is something to be done to meet the immediate situation which arises from the Secretary of State's own dilatoriness?

Mr. Maclay

The hon. Gentleman is quite wrong about this arising from my own dilatoriness. This is an extremely complicated question and I am very concerned about the facts that the hon. Gentleman has expressed. The decision to work to rule is one deliberately taken by the agents for the poor in the full knowledge of the Government's acceptance in principle of the Guthrie recommendations. I have no power to compel the agents to revert to their old methods of working. The Guthrie recommendations axe extremely complicated and will take a lot of working out before we can legislate.

Mr. Malcolm MacPherson

Is it not the case that agents are standing by to act where they are needed provided that the affidavit on means is filled up? Is it not the case that if forms of affidavit were made available then the Poor's Roll agents would be on full duty? Will the right hon. Gentleman try to make sure that these forms are made available through police channels before a case comes within the purview of the court?

Mr. Maclay

Unfortunately, some complicated factors are involved in this form of affidavit. I am in close touch with a number of people about this problem at the moment.

Mr. Millan

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter again at the earliest opportunity.