HC Deb 09 April 1962 vol 657 cc934-6
2. Mr. Fernyhough

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance how many unemployed persons were unable to draw unemployment benefit, under the 12-day rule, for those days, namely, 5th February and 5th March, on which one-day strikes took place in the engineering and shipbuilding industries.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I understand that the hon. Gentleman has in mind people laid off before the dates mentioned and unable to draw unemployment benefit for those days as a result of decisions by the independent adjudicating authorities under the trade dispute disqualification. On that basis the figures are 348 and 682, respectively I understand that 154 further claims have not yet been decided.

Mr. Fernyhough

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think it scandalous that unemployed men who are already carrying a heavy enough cross should be denied unemployment benefit through circumstances over which they have no control? Is he not aware that the regulation is more than 25 years old and that, however we may have treated the unemployed 25 years ago, the social conscience will not stand for their being treated in this manner today? Will he please not tell me that the Labour Government continued this regulation in the 1948 Act. Does he not think it time that the regulation was removed?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

All Governments, as the hon. Gentleman has reminded the House, have accepted the principle that unemployment benefit should not be payable to those laid off as a result of a trade dispute, and I think that is a principle that has been very generally accepted for a very long time.

Mr. Fernyhough

As the right hon. Gentleman knows, the men to whom I was referring were not laid off as a result of a trade dispute. They had been unemployed from a week to ten days before the dispute began. In those circumstances, would it not be harsh and unjust to prevent the men from getting the benefit to which they are entitled?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

That may be the hon. Gentleman's view, but it was not the view of the independent authorities to which the House has entrusted adjudication in these cases.

3. Mr. Fernyhough

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance how many unemployed people registered at the Jarrow and Hebburn Employment Exchange were unable to draw unemployment benefit for those days, namely 5th February and 5th March, on which one-day strikes took place in the engineering and shipbuilding industries.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I regret that the figures asked for by the hon. Gentleman are not available. But, on the basis of my Answer to his preceding Question, the figures would be 11 and 4, respectively.

Mr. Fernyhough

Is the right hon. Gentleman saying that he is going to continue with this regulation? is he not prepared to look at it? Does he not understand how much bitterness and distress it causes, and does he not think it is time that the regulation was completely removed?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

The trade dispute disqualification does sometimes, as the hon. Gentleman knows, give rise to difficulties, but experience has shown that the general principle behind it, under which my Department remains impartial in a trade dispute, is the right line to follow.