HC Deb 09 April 1962 vol 657 cc944-8
26. Mr. Malcolm MacMillan

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance with which foreign countries there is in force an agreement providing for reciprocity in matters relating to the payment of compensation or benefit to employed persons in respect of industrial or similar injuries under the provisions of Section 85 of the National Insurance (Industrial Injuries) Act, 1946.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

Belgium, Denmark, the Federal Republic of Germany, Finland, France, Israel, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, and Yugoslavia.

Mr. MacMillan

In view of the rapidly growing number of British citizens who have to work abroad and the increasing number of visits made because of easier air transport and so on, does not the Minister agree that we should be making a little more progress in this direction? Will he assure us that everything is being done to keep up with the increasing tempo of visiting abroad and the expansion of British industry and the consequent employment of more British citizens abroad?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I fully share the hon. Gentleman's feelings on this point. The difficulty is that there are comparatively few countries other than those I named in my Answer which have comparable provision of their own for industrial injuries.

27. Mr. Malcolm MacMillan

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance with which of Her Majesty's Colonies there is in force an agreement providing for reciprocity in matters relating to the payment of compensation or benefit to employed persons in respect of industrial or similar injuries under the provisions of Sections 85 of the National Insurance (Industrial Injuries) Act, 1946.

32. Mr. Rankin

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance with how many of Her Majesty's overseas territories he has agreements providing for reciprocity in matters relating to the payment of compensation or benefit to employed persons in respect of industrial and similar injuries under the provisions of Section 85 of the National Insurance (Industrial Injuries) Act, 1941

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

We have such agreements with Malta, Jersey and the Isle of Man.

Mr. MacMillan

In view of the fact that we have been able to establish reciprocal arrangements with so many foreign countries, does not the Minister agree that, having regard to our more direct responsibility and greater influence in the Colonies, we should be able by now to have complete coverage in British colonial areas? Will he assure us that everything is being done in that direction?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

The difficulty is the one that I gave the hon. Gentleman a moment ago. One cannot have a reciprocal agreement with countries which do not have industrial injuries arrangements and that is the reason why, for instance, our National Insurance reciprocal agreements with Canada, Australia and New Zealand have no industrial injuries provisions.

Mr. Rankin

In view of the importance of these reciprocal agreements to British workers and others, could not the Minister impress upon Commonwealth countries the importance we attach to them and urge them to undertake such legislation?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I do not think that it is part of my job to suggest amendments in other people's social services.

Mr. Lipton

Is the Minister aware that whereas he has reciprocal arrangements with Jersey there is no such reciprocal arrangement with Guernsey, which is causing a certain amount of hardship and dissatisfaction?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I will not repeat to the hon. Gentleman the explanation which I have already twice given.

28. Mr. Diamond

asked the Minster of Pensions and National Insurance if he will take steps to inform employed persons who are likely to be employed temporarily abroad, and their employers, with which foreign countries and with which of Her Majesty's Dominions and Colonies there is not in force an agreement providing for reciprocity in matters relating to the payment of compensation or benefit to employed persons in respect of industrial or similar injuries under the provisions of Section 85 of the National Insurance (Industrial Injuries) Act, 1946.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

A general leaflet explaining the insurance position of people who are abroad, and particular leaflets dealing with our arrangements with particular countries, can be obtained from National Insurance offices. I am sending the hon. Member a copy of these. There is also a clear explanation of the position in the Employer's Guide to National Insurance Contributions.

Mr. Diamond

Does the leaflet explain precisely which countries are covered for reciprocal purposes and which are not, so that the employer may, as the Minister has suggested, advise his employee that he will not be covered in certain places and requires, therefore, to be insured by his employer?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

There is, as I said, a general leaflet and then a particular one covering each country with which we have a reciprocal arrangement. I do not think that employers need find any difficulty at all.

Mr. S. Silverman

Is not the right hon. Gentleman's explanation about lack of reciprocity a little misleading? Is not he suggesting that in those countries with which we cannot make agreements there is no provision for industrial injuries compensation, whereas the true position is that we have transferred that liability to the national social security scheme, and the other countries which have not done so have legislation similar to that which we had before the National Insurance Act? It is not a case of our people not being entitled to any such compensation in these other countries but only that they get it under different legislation. Does not the basis for reciprocity, therefore, exist?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I do not think that the hon. Gentleman has got it quite right. There is not a basis for reciprocity unless there is a State scheme covering industrial injuries. The difficulty is that some countries have no such scheme. Some deal with cases simply under their general social security system and others still have a workmen's compensation set-up.

31. Mr. Rankin

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance what representations he has made to those foreign Governments, with whom agreement has not already been reached, with a view to obtaining an agreement providing for reciprocity in matters relating to the payment of compensation or benefit to employed persons in respect of injuries under the provisions of Section 85 of the National Insurance (Industrial Injuries) Act. 1941.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

We already have reciprocal agreements with most of the countries which have industrial injury provisions comparable with our own, and to which people from this country are likely to go in the course of their employment. But I take this opportunity of repeating that we are keen to conclude further such agreements when opportunity arises.

Mr. Rankin

Can the Minister say how many countries in the Common Market have not industrial injuries cover for those who may be injured or killed by accidents?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I gave the list of countries with which we have agreements a few minutes ago. I have nothing to add to that.