HC Deb 26 June 1961 vol 643 cc23-4
27. Mr. Woodburn

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will increase the grant paid to the Industrial Training Council so as to enable that Council to make further appointments of training development officers in Scotland.

Mr. Hare

If the Council should wish to make further appointments, they can be made within the existing grant.

Mr. Woodburn

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that not much is likely to result from one lonely soul wandering over Scotland trying to start these schemes, and that at the moment some of our more modern and highly-skilled engineering organisations cannot get apprentices and apprenticeship schemes going? Will the Minister be prepared to send representatives of both sides of industry to the Continent to see what properly organised apprenticeship schemes are doing to create skilled young men? Is he aware that the time has gone for training apprentices by making them "run the cutter" and taking betting-slips?

Mr. Hare

I really do not think that it is just one lone figure wandering over Scotland. The engineering and iron and steel industries have their own schemes, and certain other industries have their plans, in which Scotland is included. Of course, there is also the whole weight of the Industrial Training Council, which is pressing forward in its treatment of this problem. I do not think that the picture is as black as the right hon. Gentleman is suggesting.

Mr. Prentice

Even so, are there only 10 full-time training development officers employed by the Industrial Training Council in the United Kingdom, of whom only one is stationed in Scotland? Does the Minister think that so small a number can possibly make the impact necessary for what will be needed in the next 10 years?

Mr. Hare

I was very clear in my Answer. In addition to the officers of the Industrial Training Council, other industries have their own training councils and are sharing in the general effort. Both sides of industry are taking part in the follow-up, which all reinforces the efforts of the officers of the Industrial Training Council.