HC Deb 08 June 1961 vol 641 cc1386-9
44. Mr. Shinwell

asked the Prime Minister whether he will move for the appointment of a Select Committee to inquire into invitations received by hon. Members to visit foreign countries and Colonial Territories sent by private business interests and public relations firms; what is the purpose of such visits; what emoluments and expenses are paid; and whether, in order to acquaint hon. Members with overseas countries, he will provide funds to enable visits to be made under Government auspices.

Mr. Selwyn Lloyd

I have been asked to reply.

It is the view of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister that the House would wish to continue to leave it to the judgment of hon. and right hon. Members to decide what invitations to accept. The purpose and financial arrangements of visits of the kind referred to are matters between individual hon. Members and those who invite them. In regard to the last part of the Question, I would remind the right hon. Gentleman of Her Majesty's Government's contributions to the Inter-Parliamentary Union and the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association.

Mr. Shinwell

If the Chancellor, on behalf of the Government, will not appoint a Select Committee, but prefers to leave it to various organs of the Press—some of them very reputable—to probe into and unearth some very unpleasant instances, that is a matter for the Government, but would he then consider—since he recognises the institutions of C.P.A. and I.P.U.—advancing sufficient funds to enable those institutions to send official delegations abroad, so that hon. Members can have an opportunity of seeing some of the overseas countries, and, no doubt, illuminating their minds? Will he do that?

Mr. Lloyd

The Government are already supplying considerable sums. The British Group of the Inter-Parliamentary Union receives an annual grant in aid of £11,500 and the United Kingdom branch of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association receives £27,250. Those are substantial sums. I am not sure that it is in the public interest to increase those sums.

Mr. Fisher

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that a number of tours paid for by a Commonwealth Government in the last nine months have been of very short duration and, therefore, the points of view encountered by hon. Members during those tours have, necessarily, been of a somewhat selective character. Would it not be better, in order that hon. Members may get a more balanced view, if the Government financed these tours themselves?

Mr. Lloyd

Of course, I am prepared to consider the actual details of the sums made available. But, as a general principle, I am not sure that it would be in the public interest to say that the taxpayer should subsidise these tours of hon. Members to all parts of the world.

Mr. Woodburn

Is not the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that this is not a question of giving hon. Members joyful joyrides? It is a question of whether relationships between this country and foreign countries, this Parliament and Commonwealth Parliaments, are fully developed by the present limited scope. At meetings of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association it has been pointed out that the scale on which this is done is too trivial to maintain good relations that should be maintained between the peoples of the different countries.

Mr. Lloyd

As I have said, I am prepared to look at any particular proposal with regard to this, because I am not necessarily in disagreement with what the right hon. Gentleman has said. I do not believe it is right, however, to suggest that the Government should undertake the sole responsibility for financially sponsoring a series of tours to enable all hon. Members to be acquainted with all foreign countries.

Sir G. Nicholson

Will my right hon. and learned Friend bear in mind that the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association tours are on a reciprocal basis and that a large part of the Colonial Empire cannot furnish invitations in reply? Will my right hon. and learned Friend maintain an open mind on the question of whether it would not be an advantage to Parliament and to the country if hon. Members knew more about the great problems with which they have to deal? I am not making any imputations, but surely the Government and the country would benefit from a little greater acceptance of responsibility for this.

Mr. Lloyd

I am prepared to examine any specific proposal.

Mr. Shinwell

Does not the right hon. and learned Gentleman appreciate that this is a very serious matter indeed? There are serious allegations being made outside, in the public Press for which I cannot vouch, and, therefore, I will not give details of them at this stage. In these circumstances, would not the right hon. and learned Gentleman consider, in spite of what he has said, that the sums that are being made available to the recognised institutions are derisory? That has been stated over and over again by my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition and by many prominent hon. Members opposite. In these circumstances, would it not be better, in order to preserve the integrity of hon. Members and to uphold the integrity of this House, that if visits are to be made overseas they should be under the auspices of a Government or semi-Government institution?

Mr. Lloyd

There are two separate issues involved here. On the last point, I cannot accept that hon. Members should only make visits overseas under the auspices of a Government or semi-Government body. That is a matter which must be to hon. Members to judge for themselves. On the question that the contributions being made available by the Government are derisory—and this is constantly being suggested in many fields—I will look at that aspect again.

Mr. Callaghan

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that a great many hon. Members who have gone overseas under private auspices have been reluctant to do so and have accepted the invitations only because they felt that there was no other way in which they could discharge their responsibility as hon. Members of this House to see conditions in the territories for which we are responsible? About two years ago I had the invidious task of arranging a visit for an hon. Member of this House to a territory which is under the direct control of this House and which had never been visited by any hon. Member. That visit was made at the expense of a private citizen.

Since the right hon. and learned Gentleman has gone a little way towards meeting us on this matter, will he consider a request from the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association for an increase in its subvention so that these visits abroad may be more marked than they are at present?

Mr. Lloyd

As I have said, I am prepared to look at this matter again, but I warn hon. Members that I cannot entertain a proposition that the Government should undertake the sole responsibility for sponsoring all visits overseas.