§ 41. Mr. Brockwayasked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on the policy of Her Majesty's Government as stated in the speech of the Minister of Defence to the Assembly of the Western European Union on the subject of the use of tactical nuclear weapons.
§ 42. Mr. G. Brownasked the Prime Minister whether he will make a statement on the policy of Her Majesty's Government as stated in the speech made by the Minister of Defence to the Assembly of Western European Union on 1st June, 1961, about the use of nuclear and conventional weapons.
§ 43. Mr. Reynoldsasked the Prime Minister whether he will make a statement on the policy of Her Majesty's Government as stated in the speech of the Minister of Defence at the Western European Union Assembly on 1st June, about the use of nuclear and conventional weapons.
§ Mr. Selwyn LloydI have been asked to reply.
1385 No, Sir. There has been no change in the Government's policy on this issue and, in my view, nothing in my right hon. Friend the Minister of Defence's speech can be interpreted as indicating a change.
§ Mr. BrockwayDid not the speech of the Minister of Defence indicate that, in future, nuclear tactical weapons are to be the accepted instruments of our forces, whatever instruments are used by the opposing side? Does not that give rise to the very grave danger that a regional dispute might develop into a world nuclear war?
§ Mr. LloydNo. I do not think that my right hon. Friend's speech departed from previous statements on policy, in regard to which it has always been, I think, the policy of successive Ministers, and of right hon. Gentlemen on both sides, not to specify the precise conditions in which the nuclear deterrent would be used.
§ Mr. ReynoldsIs not the Chancellor aware that it is precisely because there has not been any change that these questions have been put on the Order Paper? Is he further aware that at the same session of Western European Union the American Admiral commanding in the Southern Area outlined a very big change in thinking in regard to that area which lessens the dependence on tactical and other forms of nuclear weapons? Is it not a fact that the Government cannot change their own policy because of shortage of manpower, caused primarily by the reluctance of the right hon. and learned Gentleman to spend money on defence because he would rather give it in Surtax relief?
§ Mr. LloydI do not think that the hon. Gentleman can draw any of those inferences. Of course, conventional forces are part of the deterrent, and it is important that they should be as strong as possible. The position in regard to the use of the nuclear deterrent has not changed.
§ Mr. S. SilvermanWill the right hon. and learned Gentleman explain in clear and unambiguous language—[HON. MEMBERS: "Not possible."]—let him make the effort—what is the policy that he says has not been changed? He will remember that a year or two ago there was a Defence White Paper which 1386 stated explicitly that we should use nuclear weapons first, without even announcing the circumstances in which we should use them? Will he say whether or not this is still the Government's policy?
§ Mr. LloydWhen I learned that I was to be asked to answer this Question I remembered a debate on 2nd March, 1955, when Mr. Aneurin Bevan asked Mr. Attlee, as he then was, about this very matter. Mr. Attlee put it very rightly. He said:
…deterrents, by the possession of thermonuclear weapons, are the best means of preventing another war."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 2nd March, 1955; Vol. 537, c. 2176.]That is our position.
§ Mr. SilvermanMay I again ask the right hon. and learned Gentleman to translate this multitude of meaningless words into a plain answer to a simple question? Are we to take it that his last answer was intended to say: "Yes, we do mean to use nuclear weapons first, and we do not mean to say in what circumstances we will do it"? Is the answer to that question "Yes" or "No"?
§ Mr. LloydThe answer is quite clear. It is that we have no intention of setting out all the rules so that an aggressor can exactly calculate what will be the response to any particular action.
§ Mr. GaitskellWill the Chancellor arrange for the Home Secretary to make a clear statement explaining the Government's policy?
§ Mr. LloydPerhaps I might also invite the right hon. Gentleman to comment on Mr. Attlee's statement.