HC Deb 21 July 1961 vol 644 cc1626-8

Lords Amendment: In page 23, line 29, leave out from "of" to end of line 32 and insert: preservatives, accelerators or retarders as appear to the Authority so be inflammable or any such specified preservative, accelerator or retarder as so appears;

Mr. Vane

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

Perhaps it would be clearest and simplest if we discussed also the two succeeding Amendments, which appear to hang together.

Mr. Speaker

By all means.

Mr. Vane

Clause 26, in referring to market byelaws, has particular regard to fire risks. These Amendments spring from representations made by the London County Council about fire risks. The Clause originally referred to … insecticides or other substances used for preventing deterioration in the condition of produce … But from the fire prevention angle it was thought preferable to be more specific in the Bill about the storage of other substances which might well be found in some quantity on market premises. One lives and learns. I did not realise, for instance, that when bananas are ripening they give off a certain gas, and that it is possible in order to hasten ripening to "prime the pump," as it were, and encourage the ripening process by using a little of this gas, which is likely to be stored on the premises.

I hope it will meet with the House's approval, therefore, that we should amend this provision, so that possible fire risks may be better met. The words preservatives, accelerators or retarders may seem, perhaps, to go into unnecessary detail, but since, apparently, bananas can be so dangerous at a certain stage of ripening, I feel that perhaps this is a technical matter where we should follow the advice given to us and accept these words.

Sir J. Vaughan-Morgan

This is a purely technical point, but could my hon. Friend explain what happens to the insecticides? As I understand the Amendment, we are being asked to alter virtually the whole of the original purpose of this subsection, which referred to insecticides. "Preservatives" apparently includes "insecticides". Are they not inflammable and in any case, since when was insecticide a preservative? It does not make sense to me.

Mr. Vane

My right hon. Friend is right. Here, the word "preservatives", according to the definition, is intended to include insecticides. If there are rare circumstances where one has insects but not insecticide, I do not imagine that the produce would remain preserved. It is clearly in the interest of preservation of the produce in its broadest sense.

Sir J. Vaughan-Morgan

Does that mean that one preserves the insects as well?

Mr. John Hall

I rise to support this Amendment. We should congratulate their Lordships on the care and scrutiny given to this Bill and for making this subsection much clearer than it was. It is not the first time that they have brought the keen scrutiny of able minds to bear on Bills which have, perhaps, gone through the House of Commons rather rapidly and with examples of careless draftsmanship. On the Report stage of the Bill in this House I quoted from Iolanthe. Hon. Members may remember another passage: The House of Peers, throughout the war, Did nothing in particular, And did it very well; Yet Britain set the world ablaze In good King George's glorious days.

Mr. H. P. G. Channon (Southend, West)

Does my hon. Friend also recall, The House of Lords makes no pretence To intellectual eminence. Nor scholarship divine."?

Mr. Hall

I agree. Their Lordships are very unassuming people. They work very hard in examining Bills in detail.

Mr. Speaker

This discussion relates to preservatives, including insecticides, and on it we should refrain from discussion of the virtues or otherwise of another place.

Mr. Hall

I apologise, Mr. Speaker. I will turn to the point. Their Lordships also use the words "accelerators" and "retarders". I thought that we might be able to find better words. I might wish to accelerate the business of the House in order to get this Bill through, while others might wish to retard it.

That is my only criticism, but I have one observation to make on my hon. Friend's speech and his reference to bananas. In view of the very dangerous properties of bananas, I trust that at no time will they be brought into this Chamber. The conflict between the two types of gas might be dangerous.

Question put and agreed to.

Subsequent Lords Amendments agreed to.