HC Deb 27 February 1961 vol 635 cc1179-80
19. Mr. H. Hynd

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance how many civil servants, teachers and other employees of public authorities have now contracted out of the graduated pension scheme.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

Up to last Friday, 1,417,858.

Mr. Hynd

Does this mean that 1,417,000 public employees as well as, I believe, some 2 million workers in private industry now agree with the Labour Party that this scheme is a swindle and that they could get better conditions elsewhere?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

It means, on the contrary, if one looks at the figures, that the estimate in the original White Paper, "Provision for Old Age", was of really quite startling accuracy.

Mr. Eden

Does not the large number of public employees contracting out as compared with the number of private employees contracting out indicate that the method for contracting out is still highly complicated and that in order further to facilitate more contracting out in private industry it might be advisable to consider redrafting some of the contracting out provisions?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I should hate to accept my hon. Friend's implication that private industry is less capable of dealing with complexity than public authorities.