§ 21. Mr. Willisasked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance how many of the registered unemployed in Scotland are in receipt of National Assistance payments.
§ The Joint Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Pensions and National Insurance (Miss Patricia Hornsby-Smith)Thirty-five thousand, six hundred and forty-seven on 26th April last.
§ Mr. WillisIs the right hon. Lady aware that many unemployed are unable to get National Assistance until they have been unemployed for three or four weeks? Is not this an injustice which should be put right?
§ Miss Hornsby-SmithHappily, unemployment is generally temporary.
§ Mr. WillisNot in Scotland, with 35,000-odd receiving National Assistance.
§ Miss Hornsby-SmithI think it is reasonable to expect that people finding themselves temporarily unemployed are in many cases able to maintain themselves satisfactorily over a period until they find employment. If, on the other hand, their means come within the scale laid down by the National Assistance Board they are in a position to obtain a supplementary grant from the Board.
§ Mr. FernyhoughWill not the right hon. Lady agree that the National Assistance Board seems to take into account a far different lot of Regulations in dealing with men who have been unemployed for a week or two than those laid down by the House? This causes much confusion, and hon. Members cannot advise their constituents whether they are entitled in certain circumstances to benefit. What circumstances are taken into consideration by the National Assistance Board as distinct from the Regulations approved by the House for those who apply for assistance?
§ Miss Hornsby-SmithIf the hon. Member has any evidence of differing treatment, I shall be very happy to look into any special case; but I am sure that the National Assistance Board carries out the duties placed upon it in accordance with the Regulations.
§ Mr. RossHow many of the 35,000 now receiving assistance in Scotland were refused it when they first applied?
§ Miss Hornsby-SmithI could not answer that without previous notice.
§ 29. Mr. Fernyhoughasked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance what is the number of registered unemployed who, during the last two years, have been transferred to the National Assistance Board because they have exhausted their entitlement to unemployment benefit.
§ Mr. Boyd-CarpenterI regret that this information is not available for the two years, but of those who exhausted their benefit in 1959 and were still unemployed a month later, 21,000 had applied for National Assistance in the interval.
§ Mr. FernyhoughWould not the Minister agree that that is a remarkable figure, which is likely to increase in those areas designated by the Government as having high and persistent unemployment? Does he not think it a scandal that men who are unemployed through no fault of their own and who cannot find jobs—and the Government are doing very little to find them jobs—should be submitted to this iniquity? Is it not time that we reintroduced Section 62 and thus gave the right to draw unemployment benefit to the able-bodied unemployed who want work but cannot find it?
§ Mr. Boyd-CarpenterThe hon. Gentleman knows as well as anybody else that his own right hon. Friends intended Section 62 to be temporary, and it was temporary. He knows perfectly well, too, that the vigorous measures that my right hon. Friends are taking to improve the employment position in those areas are the right answer.
§ Mr. S. SilvermanWould the Minister bear in mind that, whatever anyone else may have said or done at the time to which he refers, I divided the House against the temporary nature of Section 62? Will he therefore tell me, now so many years after, what justification can remain for not providing any kind of insurance benefit for people who after a long time, and having made every effort they can on their own behalf, are unable to obtain employment?
§ Mr. Boyd-CarpenterThe hon. Member knows perfectly well that, with the exception of a short interval, unemployment benefit has never been of indeterminate duration and that it was to deal with precisely that kind of situation that, among other things, the Assistance Board was introduced.