First Schedule.—(BOOKMAKERS' COMMITTEE.) (Hansard, 14 December 1960)

§ Mr. Ede
Earlier this evening my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Central (Mr. McInnes) repeated the point that I made on Second Reading that there is no requirement in this Schedule that any member of the Bookmakers' Committee shall be a bookmaker. I do not imagine that anything so foolish would be done by the Secretary of State as to set up a Bookmakers' Committee with no bookmakers on it, but the question arises exactly how the members of the Committee are to be chosen.
I was told by someone whom I regard as very knowledgeable in these matters that there are eighteen bookmakers' associations which are held in some high esteem. I had confirmation of that, after I said it on Second Reading, from somebody who came to me and said" I can tell you that the Government have been in touch with exactly eighteen associations." I do not make that assertion myself, but that information was conveyed to me, and I only hope that there is some glimmering of truth in it.
I am a little perturbed by the wording of paragraph 1 of the First Schedule, which says: … the Secretary of State may, after consultation with any body appearing to him to be representative of the interests of bookmakers generally … That seems to be a somewhat vague statement to put into the paragraph. The Bookmakers' Committee, presumably, will be representative of England, Scotland and Wales, and I should like some assurance that an effort will be made to consult people who know this calling and the members of it in the various parts of the country, because there is a considerable difference between a north-country bookmaker and a south-country bookmaker. I have never had any consultation with a Scottish bookmaker, but I can imagine that he is a different sort of person from 549 either of the other two I have mentioned. I have had some transactions with Welsh bookmakers, and I am quite certain that they are of so peculiar a make-up, that they must have separate representation on this committee if the committee is to have any knowledge at all of the way in which this provision operates in the valleys of Monmouthshire.
Can the Minister of State or the Under-Secretary of State give any indication of the sources from which information will be sought as this committee is being set up, and can either of them give me any indication of the probable number of people who will sit on this committee when it is constituted?

§ Mr. McInnes
Like my right hon. Friend the Member for South Shields (Mr. Ede), I should like some further information about the provisions in the First Schedule. It is true, as my right hon. Friend indicated, that the Bookmakers' Protection Association has said, as pointed out in the Peppiatt Report, that there are some eighteen regional organisations of bookmakers throughout the country, but that relates only to the Bookmakers' Protection Association and, as the Minister of State is aware, there are other bookmakers' associations.
I wonder which one or how many of these bookmakers' associations the right hon. Gentleman intends to consult. The first paragraph of the First Schedule states that the Committee shall be constituted in such manner as the Secretary of State may, after consultation with any body appearing to him to be representative of the interests of bookmakers … prescribe. I should like to know whether the right hon. Gentleman intends to consult the many bookmakers' organisations. I hope, as my right hon. Friend said, that he will do so on a regional basis, so that we have adequate representation because, for example, the Scottish Bookmakers' Association is an entirely different body from that down South, even in referring to the Bookmakers' Protection Association. I should like the right hon. Gentleman to clarify the position, 550 because the provisions of the First Schedule are very ambiguous.

§ Mr. Vosper
May I give the right hon. Member for South Shields (Mr. Ede) an assurance that there will be bookmakers on the Bookmakers' Committee, even though the Schedule does not specifically state that. As the hon. Member for Glasgow, Central (Mr. McInnes). painted out, the figure 18 occurs in the Peppiatt Report as being the number of regional organisations of the National Bookmakers' Protection Association. My right hon. Friend's intention, when the Bill is on the Statute Book, is to consult the bookmakers' organisations. That must obviously extend to the regional organisations of the N.B.P.A., and the Peppiatt Report suggested that possibly all those regions might be represented, although it was not a specific recommendation.
As I think the hon. Member for Glasgow, Central had in min,. there are other organisations. He probably had in mind the Starting Price Bookmakers' Association, which is strongly represented in the North of England, Scotland and the North of Ireland. There is a new organisation which has come into being since the Betting aid Gaming Act earlier this year. It is right that we should have regard to these organisations and consult them. Because of that, no number is in mini at the moment or specified in the Bill. It is right that we should first consult and see the extent of the representation necessary before deciding a number.
The two points which are important to the committee are, first, that bookmakers will be on the committee and, secondly, that there will be consultations with all the bodies, regional and national, of bookmakers throughout the United Kingdom.