HC Deb 06 May 1959 vol 605 cc368-74
3. Mr. Goodhart

asked the Secretary of State for War how many soldiers are now serving sentences of imprisonment or detention in the military detention centre at Shepton Mallet; and how many of these men will be released from the Army at the end of their sentence.

Mr. Soames

One hundred and fortyone, all of whom have been or will be discharged from the Army.

Mr. Goodhart

As all these men will be of no further use to the Army in any way, will my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State consider making strenuous efforts to close this prison and see that all prisoners who are sentenced to be dishonourably discharged in future serve their sentences in civilian prisons?

Mr. Soames

There is a Question on the Order Paper on that specific point.

4. Mr. Goodhart

asked the Secretary of State for War how many officers and non-commissioned officers are employed on the permanent staff at the military detention centre, Shepton Mallet.

14. Mr. Simmons

asked the Secretary of State for War from what sources the Shepton Mallet military prison is staffed; what are the qualifications of the staff; and to what extent they are subject to inspection by independent outside bodies.

Mr. Soames

Apart from those employed in administration, the permanent staff consists of six officers, together with 47 warrant officers and N.C.O.s of the Military Provost Staff Corps and seven N.C.O.s of the Royal Air Force.

Members of the Corps are all volunteers from other arms of the Service. They are selected for qualities of authority and leadership; and they have to succeed at an intensive course of training.

Inspection is undertaken by military authorities, and there are visits by members of the Prison Commission whose help and advice we welcome.

Mr. Goodhart

Is my right hon. Friend aware that I recently visited this prison and met many of the staff who are doing a very difficult job in very depressing surround ings?

Mr. Soames

I am indeed aware that my hon. Friend visited the prison and I am most grateful to him for the report that he wrote upon his visit. I am glad to hear his confirmation of how he thinks the prison is run.

Mr. Simmons

Would the Minister assert that the staff of this prison are not strong-arm men, because the photographs in the Press of some of them were not exactly reassuring? Has the right hon. Gentleman said in his reply that the usual visits which are made to civilian prisons by the prison visitors are also made to Shepton Mallet?

Mr. Soames

The staff of the prison are certainly not strong-arm men in the sense in which the hon. Member refers, but they are also not weak-arm men.

Mr. Strachey

Would not the Minister agree that there is a great deal of evidence —probably through no fault of the staff there—that the conditions in the prison are an anachronism, to say the least of it? Is the right hon. Gentleman not going to tell us what his longer-term policy is, whether it is to abolish this prison physically altogether, and, if so, whether we are to have another military prison or are to rely entirely on civilian prisons?

Mr. Soames

There are a number of Questions on the Order Paper, and that is one of them.

10. Mr. Nabarro

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will make a statement upon the prison break by thirteen soldiers at Shepton Mallet, Samerset; what modernisation has been carried out to this prison since it was built in Napoleonic times; whether he is aware that the prison buildings were condemned for use as a civil prison nearly forty years ago; what steps he has taken to establish the causes of the prison break referred to and the legitimacy of grievances expressed by the prisoners and others; and what further steps he now proposes to take in the matter.

Mr. Soames

The prison at Shepton Mallet was leased to the Army by the Home Office in 1939. Since it came into our hands we have improved the heating, lighting, water and drainage systems. Various other works services have also been carried out.

The causes of the recent outbreak were at once investigated and a board of inquiry was set up. I can make no statement about the results of our inquiries or about the court-martial for mutiny until the findings have been confirmed and the time allowed for appeal has expired.

Mr. Nabarro

Without condoning in any way the mutinous conduct of this soldiery at Shepton Mallet, may I ask my right hon. Friend if he would not agree that it is quite reprehensible that these buildings, which were condemned forty years ago for use as a civil prison, should now be kept in use as a military prison? Will he take early steps to endeavour to destroy this glasshouse and remove the prisoners to more amenable and humane surroundings?

Mr. Soames

This is a very old prison. We took it over on lease from the Home Office in 1939. We have made certain improvements to bring it into line with modern standards. There is nothing that could be done short of razing it to the ground and building it again as a modern prison, but a lot of prisons, unfortunately, are very old. The lease runs out in 1960 and we shall have to find other accommodation when we hand Shepton Mallet back to the Home Office. Shortly after that, we shall have to find other accommodation for the prisoners.

Mr. Emrys Hughes

Is it not true that, in addition to improvements, the place has recently been white-washed? Is the Minister going to do it again?

Mr. Soames

It is kept as clean as possible.

Mr. Strachey

Would not the Secretary of State agree that there are two questions here? One is on the subject of the sentences, and surely we may hope that before confirmation there will be some reduction in the sentences. Secondly, there are the conditions in the prison. There has been a great deal of evidence furnished in the public Press that they are profoundly unsatisfactory. Cannot the Minister give some assurance that in one way or another, either by the use of civil prisons or by building another military prison, the use of this prison will be discontinued?

Mr. Soames

The right hon. Member has raised two points. One is that of using civil prisons. At the moment we send all prisoners with terms of more than two years imprisonment to Home Office civil prisons, but, owing to the overcrowding of those prisons, the Home Office cannot take prisoners who are going to be discharged from the Army and are serving less than two years. Shepton Mallet is the only place available to us. The lease is running out and the premises will be handed back to the Home Office. In the meantime, we shall have to find other accommodation.

Lieut.-Commander Maydon

Is my right hon. Friend aware that those who live in the district and know about the running of these detention barracks recognise that the present commandant and his staff have done a great deal to improve the conditions and discipline in this prison in the face of most difficult material conditions in an old building? Is it common practice in detention barracks to allow the prisoners to watch television provided out of staff amenity funds?

Mr. G. Brown

That is too severe a punishment.

Mr. Soames

I am grateful to my hon. and gallant Friend for the first part of his supplementary question, with which I entirely agree. I am afraid I should need notice before answering the second part.

Mrs. Braddock

When the Minister is inquiring into the whole of this matter, will he make inquiries as to whether any complaints were made by the men before and whether there was any question that letters of complaint were stopped from being sent out by the men concerned? If that had been attended to, this difficulty might not have arisen, as people would have had an opportunity of knowing what happened inside.

Mr. Soames

There has been a full board of inquiry, but I shall, of course, take note of what the hon. Lady has said.

12 and 13. Mr. Simmons

asked the Secretary of State for War (1) what changes have been made in the structure, amenities, discipline, and routine at the Shepton Mallet prison since it was taken over as a military prison;

(2) in what way the amenities, discipline and routine applying to Shepton Mallet military prison differ from those applying at other military detention centres.

18. Mr. Emrys Hughes

asked the Secretary of State for War if he is aware that the military prison at Shepton Mallet is run purely as a punishment establishment for soldiers, that many of the soldiers sent there have ceased to be of use to Her Majesty's Forces, and that the routine of the prison is not up to the standard demanded by civil prisons; and if he will order an inquiry.

19. Mr. Chetwynd

asked the Secretary of State for War why soldiers who are dismissed from the Army and sentenced to imprisonment serve their sentences in a military rather than a civil prison.

Mr. Soames

In the United Kingdom there is one military prison, at Shepton Mallet, and one Corrective Training Centre at Colchester. Convicted soldiers who are to stay in the Army undergo detention at Colchester where the routine and training are designed to prepare them for return to their units. Soldiers who are to be discharged, including all those sentenced to terms of up to two years' imprisonment, go to Shepton Mallet where they learn civilian trades and live in conditions very similar to those of a civil prison. Terms of imprisonment over two years are served in civil prisons, but by keeping Shepton Mallet in being we avoid adding the whole burden of military offenders to the responsibilities of the Prison Commission.

During recent years, increasing emphasis has been placed on the process of rehabilitation for a return to civil life. A scheme was introduced in 1955 whereby prisoners earn small sums of money for the work they do. Professional instructors are employed for trade training, and welfare officers co-operate with the labour exchanges in finding work for the men discharged.

I dealt with the subject of improvements to accommodation in reply to an earlier Question.

Mr. Simmons

Is it not true that until recently the prison was used by the United States Army? Are any of the American practices still carried out at present, or has it reverted to the British Army because, as I understand, some of the practices are un-British in their application? Does not the Minister think that the demeanour of the staff and the conditions of the prison itself were contributory factors to the trouble there, and should not something be done before these men are severely punished by taking into consideration the horrible, intolerable and rotten conditions under which they were housed in the Shepton Mallet hellhole?

Mr. Soames

I certainly could not comment now on what the hon. Gentleman thinks may or may not have been contributory factors in a matter which is still sub judice.

Mr. Hughes

Can the Minister say if he has ever seen this place himself? Is he aware that the Church of Scotland chaplain, who acted as chaplain for three years, has recently said that this place was a blot on the Army and a blot on the conscience of this country, that the conditions are so bad that prisoners are prepared to commit other crimes and get additional sentences in order to be sent to another prison, that the food is abominable, and that all human dignity is destroyed in this prison within a very short time? Is the right hon. Gentleman prepared to say that this chaplain, who is a very respected member of the Church of Scotland, is not telling the truth?

Mr. Soames

It is not a question of telling the truth. He was giving his own impression. I am not denying that this is a very old prison, which, from the point of view of the buildings, leaves a great deal to he desired. Where rations are concerned, the men draw prison rations, the same as those drawn in civil prisons.

Mr. Chetwynd

Can the Minister say at which stage a man becomes a civilian —at the beginning of his sentence or at the end? Can he also say if there have been any requests from any of the prisoners to be transferred to local prisons so that they may have visits from their relatives?

Mr. Soames

The discharge happens at some time during the course of their imprisonment, but military law provides that, even after a man has been discharged, he still remains under military law during the period of his sentence. As to applications for transfers to other prisons, I could not answer that without notice.

Mr. Strachey

Since it is not denied that this prison is quite unsuitable and out-of-date, what is the objection to announcing that a new prison will be built or acquired, which is surely what we want?

Mr. Soames

I have told the right hon. Gentleman that by the early 1960s we shall have to leave this prison. We have given an assurance to the Home Office, but there is a shortage of prison accommodation throughout the whole country.

Mr. G. Brown

Is there no "stately home" that might be acquired in the meantime?

20. Mrs. Cullen

asked the Secretary of State for War the total weekly cost of running the military detention prison at Shepton Mallet; and the cost per head, per week, of keeping a prisoner there.

Mr. Soames

The approximate figures are £2,300 and £11 respectively.

Mrs. Cullen

Does not the Secretary of State agree that this money could have been better spent in many ways? If we take various reports, including the report of the minister from Argyll, do they not indicate that it is time that this place was closed down and demolished?

Mr. Soames

The hon. Lady says that the money could have been spent in better ways, but we must have a prison.