HC Deb 03 June 1959 vol 606 cc167-70
5. Mr. Gower

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation how many private motor cars were licensed in the United Kingdom at the latest convenient date; the total numbers in 1949 and in 1939, respectively; and his estimate of the number of private cars which will be licensed in the United Kingdom in 1969.

The Joint Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Transport and Civil Aviation (Mr. Richard Nugent)

The number of motor cars licensed in Great Britain in the September quarter of 1958 was 4,548,530. The corresponding figures for 1938—figures for 1939 are not available—and for 1949 were 1,944,394 and 2,130,793 respectively. On the assumption that this rate of increase continues there will be nearly 7½ million by 1969.

6. Mr. Gower

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation how many mechanically propelled vehicles of all kinds and of all descriptions were licensed in the United Kingdom at the latest convenient date; the total numbers in 1949 and in 1939, respectively; and his estimate of the number of vehicles which British roads will have to accommodate in 1969.

Mr. Nugent

The number licensed in Great Britain in the September quarter of 1958 was 7,903,638. The corresponding figures for 1938—figures for 1939 are not available—and for 1949 were 3,093,884 and 4,112,903 respectively. On the assumption that this rate of increase continues there will be about 12½ million by 1969.

Mr. Lipton

Does not the Minister think that saturation point has already been reached, especially in the large cities and towns of this country?

Mr. Nugent

I think that provided we have the right kind of regulations for the use of the roads and a Tory Government to build them, we shall be able to cope.

Mr. Ernest Davies

Are the Joint Parliamentary Secretary and the Minister really satisfied that the present road programme is adequate to cope with this considerable increase? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that on current values the amount spent on the roads today is no more than was spent in the 1930s and, as the net increase is far greater in volume and the number coming on to the roads is something frightening, could not the Minister get a greater move on in this respect?

Mr. Nugent

I think we have had a very satisfactory rate of expansion. A rate of expansion of the road programme of fifteen times in the last five years is about as fast as any Government could possibly manage to go. The hon. Member must remember the very low level of building there was under his Administration. I do not say that we do not need more for the future, but we are doing well.

Mr. Gower

Although these figures indicate a wonderful increase in the standard of living under this Government and while it is true that my right hon. Friend has given a figure which is better than ever before, is it not a fact that these figures suggest that plans should now be prepared and steps immediately taken for a much bigger road programme than the present one?

Mr. Nugent

Our planning for the future road programme will, I think, prove to be adequate.

7. Mr. Gower

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation how many lorries, trucks, vans and commercial vehicles were licensed in the United Kingdom at the latest convenient date; the total numbers in 1949 and in 1939, respectively; and his estimate of the total number which will be licensed in 1969.

Mr. Nugent

The number of goods vehicles licensed in Great Britain in the September quarter of 1958 was 1,268,498. The corresponding figures for 1938—figures for 1939 are not available —and for 1949 were 494,866 and 843,723 respectively. On the assumption that this rate of increase continues there will be about 1.8 million by 1969.

Mr. Gower

Is not a satisfactory feature of these figures that all these vehicles are not concentrated in one vast State monopoly?

Mr. Ernest Davies

Does the Joint Parliamentary Secretary believe that there is a need for this increase in goods vehicles today? Does he not realise that railway capacity is unused to a very large extent and that a very large number of vehicles on the roads are running empty part of the time, or only partially loaded? Would not a little planned transport be the best way of relieving congestion on the roads and making for road safety?

Mr. Nugent

It depends what the hon. Member means by planned transport. Broadly, the answer to his supplementary question is that this arithmetical exercise I have done in answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Barry (Mr. Gower) is not necessarily what will happen in practice. The railways are modernising their services and offering better services. It would be extremely difficult to say where the balance will settle down in twelve years' time.

Mr. Burden

Would not my hon. Friend agree that, in considering all these matters, due regard must be taken of the cost that is loaded on to merchandise by transport and that canalising it to a more costly mode of transport than is at present used might increase the cost of our goods overseas?

Mr. Nugent

Certainly I agree with my hon. Friend. I am quite certain that the best method by which to serve industry is to leave it free to choose which form of transport it should use, road transport or rail transport. It can then choose for itself the cheapest and most efficient service to suit itself.

Mr. Grimond

The hon. Gentleman spoke of an arithmetical exercise. Can he tell us that his Department is planning on the assumption that an increase is going to take place or on some other assumption? If it is the latter, will he tell us what that assumption is?

Mr. Nugent

We are planning on certain assumptions. [HON. MEMBERS: "What assumptions?"] In fact, recently we have been in process of revising the basis of future road capacities because, in the light of the ever-increasing number of vehicles, it is obviously necessary to do so. I am not able to give the hon. Member a precise answer except to tell him that the previous basis, which was a capacity of 75 per cent. over the 1954 traffic figures, is obviously no longer the appropriate basis. We are now in process of revising that to something which I suspect will be a great deal higher, but I am not able to give precise details today.