§ 22. Dr. D. Johnsonasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will review his decision in regard to the five managers of public houses in the Carlisle State Management Scheme dismissed, in certain cases after previous long service, on account of their failure to achieve sufficient surplus profit over the calculated wholesale/retail margin.
§ 62. Mr. Peartasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will now reconsider his decision in relation to the managers of public houses in the Carlisle and District Management Scheme who were dismissed for returning an insufficient percentage of surplus profit.
§ Dr. JohnsonIs my right hon. Friend aware that, in the eyes of several other hon. Members and myself, the State has appeared a bad employer as a result of the dismissal of these men? Is he also aware that I speak with some practical experience of this business, as a former owner of licensed property, when I say that the circumstances of these men's employment was such that they could not possibly be held responsible for the alleged deficiencies for which they have been dismissed? Will he not have a completely open inquiry into the case of these men?
§ Mr. ButlerThere has been an appeal and representations by my hon. Friend, but I have decided that there is no ground for varying the decision to dismiss these men for the reasons that have been stated.
§ Mr. PeartWill not the Home Secretary reconsider his decision? People in the area—and the Carlisle State Management Scheme covers a wide area of Cumberland—feel that these managers have been treated shamefully. Will not the right hon. Gentleman reconsider his decision and, perhaps, meet hon. Members representing the area again?
§ Mr. ButlerI understand the feeling which exists on the subject, but I have been into it very closely and can say that there were reasons and circumstances which make it impossible for me to reconsider my decision.
§ Dr. JohnsonIn view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment.
§ 23. Dr. D. Johnsonasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware that the managers of public houses in the Carlisle State Management Scheme do not possess the keys of their own tills and are thus unable to make proper daily checks of their day's takings; and what steps he proposes to take to alter this.
§ Mr. R. A. ButlerI am satisfied that the present arrangement is appropriate, and I do not propose to alter it.
§ 24. Dr. D. Johnsonasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware that the managers of public houses in the Carlisle State Management Scheme do not have discretion as to employment of their own bar staff, who may arrive or leave in the intervals between the periodical checks on their tills made by the outside superintendent; and what steps he will take to enable these managers to avoid having to take responsibility for possible defalcations of employees on whom they have not had the opportunity to make proper check.
§ Mr. R. A. ButlerMy hon. Friend is misinformed: the managers of the Carlisle public houses have discretion as to the employment of 95 per cent. of the bar staff. I am satisfied that adequate machinery exists for their supervision.
§ Dr. JohnsonIs my right hon. Friend fully aware of the fact that between these checks of the tills employees can come and go, so that the managers have no possible check on any deficiencies, which might be the fault of barmen who left between the times when the tills were checked?
§ Mr. ButlerI have also investigated this matter, and I find that if a manager suspects the honesty of an employee he can and does seek the assistance of head office, which institutes special checks in concert with the manager. I am quite ready to listen to what my hon. Friend says about this matter, but I have given the result of my investigations up to date.