Reciprocal Arrangements (Hansard, 1 December 1958)

§ 16. Miss Bacon
asked the Minister of Health with which countries his Department has reciprocal arrangements for hospital treatment.

§ Mr. Walker-Smith
Her Majesty's Government have reciprocal social security agreements containing health service provisions which are open to all British residents in Sweden, Norway and Yugoslavia, including tourists, and to limited classes of British nationals in Belgium, France, Luxembourg and the Netherlands. In all cases hospital treatment is available for the persons covered.

§ Miss Bacon
Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman seeking to extend this list of reciprocal arrangements to include, for instance, Germany?

§ Mr. Walker-Smith
Yes. Discussions are under way at the present time for a social security agreement with Federal Germany, but it is unlikely that it will 821 provide medical benefit for British nationals other than pensioners ordinarily resident there or British workers employed there. In other words, it will fall within the limited category.

§ Mr. Grimond
Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman say what reciprocal arrangements there are in the Commonwealth and whether any conversations are proceeding?

§ Mr. Walker-Smith
That is a question initially for my right hon. Friend the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman would be good enough to put it down.

§ Dr. Summerskill
In view of the large number of visitors from the United States to this country—and I am pleased to say that when they arrive they are given treatment if necessary—cannot the Minister emphasise the importance of visitors to the United States effecting some medical insurance before they go there?

§ Mr. Walker-Smith
Yes, I think that medical care outside the National Health Service is obviously a personal responsibility and that people travelling to countries where there are no reciprocal measures in force would be well-advised to make personal insurance before travelling.

§ Mr. S. Silverman
Can the right hon. and learned Gentleman explain exactly why he is able to answer about reciprocal arrangements with the European continent but not with the Commonwealth?

§ Mr. Walker-Smith
These are social security agreements which contain health provisions. The actual negotiation is for a social security agreement, and therefore I apprehend that the primary responsibility for answering is that of my right hon. Friend the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance, but I was giving the hon. Lady the information which she sought in her Question.

§ l7. Miss Bacon
asked the Minister of Health if he will make reciprocal arrangements with the War Office for the treatment of British civilians who happen to enter British military hospitals.

§ Mr. Walker-Smith
Such arrangements already exist in relation to Service hospitals in this country. I have no power 822 to provide medical care for British citizens abroad.

§ Miss Bacon
Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that a constituent about whom I put a Question to the Secretary of State for War on Wednesday was presented with a considerable bill for treatment while in a British military hospital in Germany? Is it not incredible that while we try to get reciprocal arrangements with other countries his Department has no reciprocal arrangement with another Department? Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman indicate that his Department will pay the bill which the War Office has sent?

§ Mr. Walker-Smith
The hon. Lady must not say that I have not reciprocal arrangements with the War Office. My jurisdiction is in this country, and I have reciprocal arrangements whereby the National Health Service provides hospital treatment for Service personnel when they are taken ill on leave or require special treatment not available from the Services, and in return the Service hospitals admit civilian patients by arrangements with the regional hospital boards. The hon. Lady is asking for a provision of service by the National Health Service outside this country. That is, as I have already explained, what I have no power to do. If she wants military hospitals abroad to provide treatment for British civilians, she must persuade my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War.

§ Dr. Summerskill
In view of that fact that we very frequently discuss in this House reciprocal arrangements that have been made, surely the right hon. and learned Gentleman should make representations to his right hon. Friend? This concerns only a very few people.

§ Mr. Walker-Smith
The hon. Lady has a Question down for Wednesday to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War who will answer in regard to the facilities of the Service hospitals overseas, which are not within my jurisdiction.

§ Mr. J. Griffiths
If a British civilian is taken ill in a country in which there are British military hospitals, does the right hon. and learned Gentleman not think it sensible in those circumstances to arrange that a British civilian should be 823 able to receive free treatment at a military hospital?

§ Mr. Walker-Smith
That is not a matter which comes within my jurisdiction. [HON. MEMBERS "Oh."] Right hon. and hon. Members must be aware of the terms of the National Health Service Act, which makes it my duty to provide the National Health Service within this country. Military hospitals overseas are really not part of my jurisdiction. I have no doubt that my right hon. Friend will bear in mind what the right hon. Gentleman has said today.

Mr. T. Williams
Are not the Minister and his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War on speaking terms?

§ Mr. Walker-Smith
Certainly. We have very amiable and constructive conversations—[Interruption.] It is no use hon. Members saying "get on with it." The hon. Lady has not yet had her reply from my right hon. Friend. In the light of that, and of the opinions vouchsafed by the House, I am quite ready that my right hon. Friend and I shall talk further over the matter.