HC Deb 07 March 1957 vol 566 cc516-8
21. Mr. H. Johnson

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will promote legislation to make illegal the hunting of deer with hounds.

33. Sir F. Medlicott

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if his attention has been drawn to a recent incident in which a hind was drowned by the Devon and Somerset Staghounds, after being hunted for five hours; and if he will introduce legislation to prohibit the hunting of deer with hounds.

Mr. Simon

My right hon. Friend has seen a report of this incident, but the Government are not prepared to introduce legislation on this controversial subject.

Mr. Johnson

Does not my hon. and learned Friend consider, having regard to the deep indignation felt by the vast majority of our people at this fiendish cruelty, that the Government should take responsibility for stopping what is a disgraceful practice in this country which prevents our calling ourselves a civilised nation?

Mr. Simon

The facts in the particular case to which I think my hon. Friend is referring——

Mr. Johnson

No, the general practice.

Mr. Simon

—have by no means been clearly ascertained. With regard to the general practice, the right hon. Member for South Shields (Mr. Ede), when he was Home Secretary, and the Secretary of State for Scotland at that time appointed a Committee which reported in June, 1951. That Committee expressed the view that red deer hunting is a useful and necessary method of controlling red deer on Exmoor and the deer could not be destroyed or controlled, … in a way that would cause less suffering. The Committee recommended, therefore, that the hunting of red deer should continue.

Mr. Lipton

Is the Under-Secretary taking into account what the Bishop of Norwich said, and has that settled the issue as far as the Government are concerned?

Mr. Simon

My right hon. Friend has taken account of all representations and reports on this episode which have been made, but he is bound to say that any legislation would be most controversial and he is not prepared, in view of the recent investigation of this subject by a Departmental Committee, to consider bringing in legislation at the moment.

Sir F. Medlicott

Is my hon. and learned Friend aware that the master of the hunt has stated quite plainly that the hind was hunted for five hours and then drowned by the hounds? Is he also aware that this was only the latest in a series of deplorable incidents with which the Devon and Somerset Staghounds have been concerned and that this so-called sport is 'utterly inconsistent with those high traditions in the treatment of animals of which this country in all other respects is justly proud?

Mr. Simon

I recognise that my hon. Friend and other right hon. and hon. Members feel deeply about this matter, but I know they will recognise that there are equally strong feelings on the other side——

Mr. Lipton

The Bishop of Norwich.

Mr. Simon

—and the whole history of this matter was considered by the Departmental Committee.

Mr. Anthony Greenwood

Could the hon. and learned Gentleman tell the House how the hunting of carted stags in other parts of the country is helpful in keeping down red deer on Exmoor? Is he aware that there is not merely public dismay that the hunting of carted stags should now enjoy the approval of the Bishop of Norwich, but that also there is evidence of mounting indignation on the part of the public at the brutalities which are perpetrated by the Devon and Somerset Staghounds, which might well lead to a breach of the peace? Will he take into consideration the fact that, however controversial he may think legislation would be, it would enjoy the overwhelming support of hon. Members on this side of the House?

Mr. Simon

The question of carted deer was also considered by the Departmental Committee, which recommended that legislation should not be introduced.

Mr. Bevan

As this is not a matter which divides the House on party lines, is it not eminently the sort of legislation which ought to be left to a free vote of the House?

Mr. Simon

That is certainly not a matter which rests within my purview.

Mr. Bevan

Could the hon. and learned Gentleman not make representations in view of the cross-party feeling that an early opportunity ought to be provided for legislation on the matter, leaving it to the House itself to decide? There is no Tory or Socialist view about hunting stags.

Mr. Simon

My right hon. Friend, on his return to this country, will certainly consider everything that has been said today.

Dame Florence Horsbrugh

Is not this a matter which might be the subject for a Private Member's Bill? Then the general feeling of the House would be tested.