HC Deb 12 February 1957 vol 564 cc1052-4
10. Mr. Allaun

asked the Secretary of State for War if he has considered the view of the Wolfenden Report that three civil servants can do the work of five National Service men; and if he now intends to take steps towards the ending of National Service.

Mr. Hare

As explained in paragraph 13 of the Army Council Memorandum to the Report, it is our policy to employ a civilian where he can do the job as well as a man in uniform. It is our intention to press on with civilianisation to the greatest extent possible consistent with the need for uniformed manpower, but it must not be thought that these steps would alone remove the need for National Service.

Mr. Allaun

Then will the Minister deal in particular with Army pay offices, where in many hundreds of cases teams of five young and fit National Service men are doing the work of three girls or older workers? Could not the right hon. Gentleman, by civilianisation[HON. MEMBERS: "Horrible word."]—secure a net saving of approximately 40,000 posts?

Mr. Hare

I should like to tell the hon. Gentleman that I am personally taking the greatest interest in the possible use of electronic methods in connection with the Royal Army Pay Corps, and I think there may be a considerable saving of manpower possible when we have been able to develop our plans in that connection.

Mr. Wigg

Would the right hon. Gentleman consult the Minister of Defence to see how far it is practicable to get a simplification of the pay code, not only of the Army but of all the three Services, in order to cut overheads in that sphere?

Mr. Hare

I will certainly draw the attention of the Minister of Defence to what the hon. Gentleman has suggested.

11. Mr. Allaun

asked the Secretary of State for War if he has considered the view of the Wolfenden Committee that it does not take two years to train a National Service man; and if he now intends to take action to reduce the burden of National Service.

Mr. Hare

As is stated in paragraph 10 of the Army Council Memorandum attached to the Report of the Committee, the present period of service is designed to help provide sufficient fully trained soldiers to meet the Army's commitments and not merely to produce fully trained soldiers.

Mr. Allaun

Does the Minister appreciate that unless he cuts, or ends, National Service now, from December of next year, instead of having fewer conscripts, he will have nearly twice as many as now; first, because the age of call-up will by then have been raised to its maximum of 20 and, secondly, because of the bulge in the birth rate?

Mr. Hare

I think the hon. Gentleman is trying to put to me a general question on the future of National Service. As he knows perfectly well, that affects all three Services, and the Minister of Defence said only last week that he had no statement to make on the subject at the moment.