HC Deb 21 June 1956 vol 554 cc1612-5
23. Mr. Stokes

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware that No. 39 Curzon Street was sold on 10th February, 1954, to Madame Johans and subsequently resold as a brothel for £10,000 to Eugene de Bono, alias Messina, on 10th October, 1954, whilst a refugee from justice in this country; that when the house was raided by the police last year £14,000 in cash was found in the safe; and what action has been taken or is proposed against Madame Johans and Eugene de Bono.

Major Lloyd-George

In August, 1955, Mrs. Johans was convicted and fined for keeping a brothel at these premises. I am informed that the police are not aware of any ground on which Messina could have been proceeded against in this case.

Mr. Stokes

Is the Home Secretary aware that Madame Johans is also the proprietor of the flats in which the Messina brothers have until recently been living in Brussels? Is he aware that responsible police officers have stated that these girls pay to the Messina brothers, through, I agree, subterranean routes, £5,000 a year each, and that I have a list of twenty-two of the names in my possession? That gives some idea of the extent to which this has been going on.

Major Lloyd-George

The right hon. Gentleman would, I know, agree that those whose names he has been mentioning would probably be likely to do all that he has said. Two of them left this country four years ago, and I think they are at present in custody in Brussels. That is the position at the moment.

Mr. Stokes

Is the Minister aware that his Department, or New Scotland Yard, sent two inspectors over to Tournai this week to attend the trial of the Messina brothers? Is he aware that the information which I have put before the House today and that appears on the Order Paper has come to me through the Belgian police and presumably, therefore, was known to New Scotland Yard also?

Major Lloyd-George

I should hate to have to tell the right hon. Gentleman the amount of information in New Scotland Yard about these people. The fact of the matter is, of course—

Mr. Chapman

What is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman doing about it?

Major Lloyd-George

It is no use asking "What is the Minister doing about it?" The police cannot do anything unless there is something about which action must be taken. The fact is that no police action could have been taken in this case. Mrs. Johans was, if I remember rightly, fined for keeping a brothel but there was no action which the police could take against those two men.

Mr. Shinwell

Has the right hon. and gallant Gentleman's attention been directed to allegations which have appeared recently in some of our national daily newspapers, including criticisms of himself for not having taken drastic action in connection with alleged vice in the West End of London? Will he give his attention to this matter, and indicate to hon. Members very shortly what he proposes to do about the whole situation?

Major Lloyd-George

The criticism against myself in the papers does not worry me very much—one gets used to it—but when it comes to criticism of the police, a lot of it is grossly unfair. While the right hon. Gentleman asks what is being done, he knows perfectly well that on the question of homosexuality and prostitution a Committee has been sitting for some time. We are awaiting its Report to see what is the position.

Mr. J. Griffiths

Is the Home Secretary satisfied that he has sufficient powers to get rid of this evil? If not, will he come to the House and ask for powers?

Major Lloyd-George

What hon. Members must realise—I must say this in defence of the police—is that in this direction the police have a very difficult task indeed, and the way that attacks are made about them is grossly unfair. There are even allegations of corruption right and left. I think there are sufficient powers as the law is at present, but we are awaiting the result of this very careful and extensive investigation which is being made before taking further action concerning the law.

Mr. Shinwell

Nobody on this side of the House, or, for that matter, on either side of the House, makes any criticism of the police; we are not concerned with that aspect. Will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman at least expedite the deliberations of the Committee in order to give some assurance to the House and to the public that this matter is being given proper attention?

Major Lloyd-George

Obviously, this matter is one which has caused tremendous interest. I do not know whether the Committee has yet completed taking evidence. It was due to close down on taking evidence in August and was then to take second appearances of witnesses who have appeared before. I will certainly look into the matter and ascertain the position.

24. Mr. Stokes

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware that No. 12 Chesterfield Terrace, No. 7 Stafford Street, Mayfair, No. 39 Curzon Street, and No. 36 Shepherd Market, have all been purchased by, or on behalf of, the Messina brothers, since they fled from justice in this country four years ago, to be used as brothels; and what action he has taken or proposes to take.

Major Lloyd-George

The police can take action only if there is evidence of a breach of the law. The lessor of No. 39 Curzon Street was successfully prosecuted in August last for keeping a brothel.

Mr. Stokes

Is the Home Secretary aware that all these four premises were purchased by the Messina brothers after they left this country? Is he aware of the amounts which, as I indicated earlier. are passing back to them by illicit means, and is he also aware that they have agencies of a similar kind in Hamburg, Paris and Vienna, the addresses of which I shall be very glad to give to the right hon. and gallant Gentleman if they are of use to him in pursuing the course of justice?

Major Lloyd-George

Here again, the police can only take action when there is evidence of a breach of the law. There was no evidence of a breach of the law on this occasion. Suspicion is one thing and certainty another. We cannot act only on suspicion. In this case there was no evidence of a breach of the law, so far as the police were concerned.

Mr. Stokes

Surely, the right hon. and gallant Gentleman would agree that the evidence here is practically conclusive. Is he aware that I put down this group of Questions not only to draw attention to the Messina brothers but to the fact that the whole of the West End is permeated by gangs of this kind, who are exploiting prostitution for their own ends and not for the purpose for which it is intended?

Major Lloyd-George

I shall avail myself of the right hon. Gentleman's offer in order to get all the information I can.