HC Deb 28 February 1956 vol 549 cc991-5
15. Mr. Gibson

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government how many of the chairmen of rent tribunals are people with legal training.

Mr. Sandys

Thirty-eight.

16. Mr. Gibson

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government what general guidance as to the principles which rent tribunals should follow in the determination of rent appeals is given by his Department.

Mr. Sandys

General guidance has been given to rent tribunals in a series of memoranda, which are too long to summarise in reply to an oral Question.

Mr. Gibson

Will the Minister put a précis of the memoranda in the Library? Is he aware that we have been getting some extraordinary decisions by various tribunals—some too high and some too low, but certainly extraordinary—which show that as far as the chairmen are concerned there seems to be little general principle in any decisions which they make?

Mr. Sandys

I see no objection to putting the memoranda complete in the Library. They are all memoranda issued, before the change of Government, by the party opposite.

21. Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government whether he will make a statement on the future of rent tribunals.

25. Mr. Gibson

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government what is now his policy regarding rent tribunals; and how far the evidence given to the Committee on Administrative Tribunals by the Permanent Secretary of his Department was given with his knowledge and consent.

26. Mr. Sorensen

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government why Her Majesty's Government intend to abolish rent tribunals.

28. Mr. Blenkinsop

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government if he will make a statement regarding the future of rent tribunals.

35. Mr. MacColl

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government whether he is satisfied with the personnel of rent tribunals; and what use has been made since October, 1951, of the power to dismiss their members, otherwise than on the dissolution of tribunals.

36. Mr. MacColl

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government whether he is satisfied with the procedure of rent tribunals; and what use he proposes to make of his powers to modify the procedure.

Mr. Sandys

As part of the review of the Rent Acts which I announced last October, I shall inevitably have to examine the jurisdiction, procedure and general working of rent tribunals. But, as was made clear by the Permanent Secretary of my Department in the evidence referred to, I have not as yet considered these matters—still less arrived at any decisions upon them.

This evidence was given in reply to questions put in the course of an examination by the committee on administrative tribunals. Naturally, neither the Permanent Secretary nor I had prior knowledge of what questions would be asked.

In reply to the hon. Member for Widnes (Mr. MacColl), I have no reason to be dissatisfied with the personnel of rent tribunals in general. The power to dismiss members have been used in four cases since October, 1951, and in a number of other cases persons known not to be suitable have either resigned or have not been reappointed.

Lieut.-Colonel Lipton

Is the Minister aware that tenants generally prefer rent tribunals to expensive proceedings under the Rent Acts, which puzzle even High Court judges? Why is he so anxious to nibble away the protection afforded to people in humble circumstances and to brief civil servants to make authoritative statements outside the House which he shirks making here in the House in the first instance?

Mr. Sandys

In the first place, I made it clear that I have taken no decision whatever, so it is quite unreasonable for the hon. and gallant Member to say that I am nibbling away at anything at all. Secondly, my Permanent Secretary did not make any policy statement whatever. I would point out to the House, however, that when officials are publicly cross-examined by committees of inquiry it is almost impossible for them to conceal their opinions on matters relating to policy.

Mr. Blenkinsop

Would the Minister say whether there is any evidence of any difficulty in securing people for appointment to rent tribunals? Is there any difficulty in getting people to serve on them? This appeared to be a new point to many of us about which we had not heard at all.

Mr. Sandys

It is not everybody who wants to be a member of a rent tribunal.

Mr. Blenkinsop

That is a rather flippant answer. Is the Minister aware that it was stated very clearly in the evidence given by the Permanent Secretary that there had been a great deal of difficulty in securing appointments? As there has been no mention of this previously when the matter has arisen before in the House, is it not desirable that the Minister should explain the situation to the House?

Mr. Sandys

My answer was not intended to be flippant. It was intended to indicate that it was not very easy to find people prepared to take on these jobs.

Mr. MacColl

Would the right hon. Gentleman agree that if there is difficulty in getting people to undertake this onerous work it shows how onerous it is, and how valuable is the work which has been done in these cheap and popular tribunals? Will the right hon. Gentleman agree that if improvement is needed the remedy is in his own hands? Will he think long and hard before he makes any alteration?

Mr. Sandys

In the same question the hon. Member asks me, will I review the position; and at the same time, will I make no change? I intend to review the position. I am not in a position to say whether I shall make any changes or propose any changes to the House.

Mr. Mitchison

Since the right hon. Gentleman was so well satisfied with the tribunals that he gave them considerable additional duties in 1954, will he do his best to use his powers as to procedure, which are comprehensive, instead of coming to any decision to abolish the tribunals?

Mr. Sandys

That is what I said. I shall be looking at the procedure. I have not addressed myself to this matter yet, but it will inevitably form part of the work of reviewing the whole structure of the Rent Acts.

Mr. A. Evans

May we take it that the Minister does not approve of the statements made by his Permanent Secretary?

Mr. Sandys

No, Sir; the hon. Member certainly cannot make that assumption. I have not seen the evidence in detail, but I have no reason to suppose that I shall find myself in disagreement with what has been said.

Mr. Gibson

I want to put two brief points to the Minister. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that according to the Manchester Guardian his Permanent Secretary said: These things may be coming to a speedy end. That is rather definite. Does the right hon. Gentleman endorse that or not? Is he aware that on 24th November the then Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Housing and Local Government said in the House: …there is no questioning of the value of the tribunals or of the need for their continuance."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 24th November. 1955; Vol. 546, c. 1768.] May we take it that the right hon. Gentleman stands by that statement made in the House by his Parliamentary Secretary?

Mr. Sandys

I think that the Question mainly relates to the evidence given before the Committee. As I have already indicated, the Permanent Secretary made it absolutely clear that I have not yet so much as considered this question. Therefore, it is altogether premature to criticise me for a decision which I have not yet taken.