HC Deb 31 March 1955 vol 539 cc540-4
42. Mr, Peter Freeman

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware of the objections taken by bird lovers to the proposed Order under the Protection of Birds Act, I954, specifying certain birds' eggs which are not protected; and whether he will cause a public inquiry to be held before bringing this Order into effect in accordance with Section 13 (2)(c)of the Protection of Birds Act, 1954.

53. Mr. J. E. B. Hill

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will consider holding a public inquiry in Norwich under Section 13 (2)(c)of the Protection of Birds Act, 1954, before removing any birds, other than the coot, moorhen and blackheaded gull, from the protection of the Act within the county of Norfolk.

Major Lloyd-George

As required by law, I have consulted the Advisory Committee and have given an opportunity for objections and representations to be made to me, but I do not think that a public inquiry would be appropriate in this instance.

Mr. Freeman

In view of the large number of protests made all over the country about this matter, will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman see that something is done before the Order is brought into effect? Does his duty as Home Secretary include responsibility for introducing an Order which encourages young children to steal?

Major Lloyd-George

I cannot accept the latter part of the hon. Member's supplementary question. The purpose of the Act is to make it less possible for children to be charged with any offence. The legislation existing hitherto was chaotic because every county had its own list of birds whose eggs were protected, and it was quite impossible to enforce the law. This Act makes for a comprehensive scheme throughout the country.

Sir T. Moore

Is my right hon. and gallant Friend aware that the announcement of the proposed Order has puzzled and, indeed, rather shocked a great number of bird lovers throughout the country? Before any further action is taken, would my right hon. and gallant Friend refer the matter back to the Advisory Committee and give that Committee an opportunity of reconsidering it?

Major Lloyd-George

I should like to remind my hon. Friend that this was a duty laid upon the Advisory Committee by Parliament and that there was practically no opposition to it in this House or in another place when the Measure was passing through Parliament —there was no vote. All that I am doing is what I am enjoined to do by Parliament. The Advisory Committee advises me on what is the best list, and I have to decide when the list is presented before me. I hope to come to a conclusion very soon.

Mr. Ede

Would the Home Secretary bear in mind the representations that have been made to him by teachers in schools dealing with nature study, including some which I have sent to him, protesting against this Order on the ground that it will decrease the sense of responsibility in children who are engaged in the study of nests and eggs?

Major Lloyd-George

I do not agree with the right hon. Gentleman's suggestion about the effect of the proposed Order on children. As the right hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well, some degree of protection has existed for many years and this Act is an attempt to make it a little more comprehensive. The old Act was not working at all. I think that this Act provides more protection for birds than did the old Act.

Mr. Hill

Can my right hon. and gallant Friend say whether he has received formal obection from another county council, the Norfolk County Council, and whether, in view of the fact that the proposed Order removes protection from seven species of birds which the Norfolk County Council formerly protected, he would reconsider the matter if experience shows that the objections were well founded?

Major Lloyd-George

Of course, I am prepared to consider anything. I am sure the hon. Member will appreciate the difficulty in which I am placed. He referred to the Norfolk County Council and, of the 13 birds named in the list to be protected, seven appeared in the Norfolk County Council list in 1948 but six of the present list did not, and amongst them, if I remember aright, are the blackbird and the linnet. Those were not included, and that confirms what I am saying, that there was complete confusion between one county and another.

44. Mr. Bullard

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, in view of the representations that have been made to him from the county of Norfolk, he will now amend the draft Order made under the Protection of Birds Act, 1954.

50. Sir F. Medlicott

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is aware of the disquiet which has been caused in the county of Norfolk by the provisional list of birds whose eggs are proposed to be taken out of the protection afforded by the Protection of Birds Act, 1954; and if he will review the list in the light of the representations which have been made to him by the Norfolk County Council.

51. Commander

Scott-Miller asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will reconsider his Order to take out certain birds from the Protection of Birds Act, 1954, in view of the many representations since made to him on this subject.

52. Captain Pilkington

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, in view of the objections raised, he has yet reconsidered the proposals to exclude certain wild birds' eggs from the provisions of the Protection of Birds Act.

Major Lloyd-George

Parliament decided that, to avoid making ordinary birds-nesting and egg-collecting by children a crime, a list of common birds should be drawn up whose eggs should not be protected. The Government supported this decision, and I am still not convinced that it would be right to make it a crime for a child to take an egg of one of our common birds. Numbers of objections have been received and, as required by the Act, I am considering these before reaching a final decision.

Captain Pilkington

Can my right hon. and gallant Friend say when he is likely to come to any decision about this matter in view of the objections raised?

Major Lloyd-George

I have to come to a decision very quickly, because the time of the year makes it very urgent.

Mr. Nicholson

Can my right hon. Friend say if it is necessary for these regulations to be posted outside police stations and, if it is, will he avoid it if that is possible? Would he also take some steps to promote propaganda through teachers and parents to teach the children the proper way to treat birds?

Major Lloyd-George

Certainly, but it is necessary to put the lists somewhere; otherwise no one will know what they contain.

Mr. Edward Evans

In addition to the volume of objections from Norfolk, is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware of those which have come from Suffolk as well?

Commander Donaldson

Will my right hon. and gallant Friend consult the Secretary of State for Scotland as to the number of representations by societies and individuals in Scotland which he has received?

Major Lloyd-George

I am in consultation with my right hon. Friend.