HC Deb 28 February 1955 vol 537 cc1712-4
43. Mr. E. Fletcher

asked the Attorney-General whether he is aware that the operation of the Regulations made under the Legal Aid and Advice Act, 1949, with regard to the contributions exacted from an assisted person as a condition of a grant of a legal aid certificate often cause hardship; and whether he will take steps to modify the regulations and, in particular, to give the National Assistance Board greater discretion in the matter.

The Attorney-General (Sir Reginald Manningham-Buller)

No, Sir. My noble Friend the Lord Chancellor agrees with the view expressed by the Legal Aid Advisory Committee in their Third Annual Report that the public money available should go first towards extending the scheme to those parts of the Act not yet in force rather than to amending the parts already in operation.

Mr. Fletcher

I am not sure whether the Attorney-General has answered Question No. 43 or No. 44. If the Attorney-General was really answering No. 43, his answer was far more appropriate to No. 44. No. 43 deals with regulations.

The Attorney-General

The hon. Gentleman had better look at Question No. 43 again, when he will see that the answer I gave was to the right Question.

Mr. Fletcher

Is the Attorney-General aware that I have already had one letter from him apologising for the mistakes made in the assessment by the Board. That was in respect of a man earning£8 a week who was wrongly assessed at£124. The Attorney-General said he should have been assessed at only£62. Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware of many cases of great hardship through over-assessment, which suggests that either the regulations are wrong and ought to be changed, or that they are being badly administered?

The Attorney-General

I wrote to the hon. Gentleman in regard to one case which was brought to my notice where the National Assistance Board made an error in the assessment. The hon. Gentleman's Question asked me to take steps to modify the regulations and to give the National Assistance Board greater discretion in the matter. That is the Question I am answering. I have answered it, and I adhere to that answer.

Mr. Turner-Samuels

Arising out of that reply and concentrating particularly on the word "hardship," of which there are many instances, does the right hon. and learned Gentleman not agree that, apart from the question of regulations, the sums fixed by these committees are, in fact, exceeding the amount which the litigant would have to pay to a solicitor direct without any legal aid at all? Is it not correct that this is continually happening in divorce cases?

Mr. Speaker

The hon. and learned Gentleman cannot make a speech.

Mr. Turner-Samuels

Would the right hon. and learned Gentleman look into those cases and try to remedy them?

The Attorney-General

Of course I will look into any case sent to me, as I did in the case sent to me by the hon. Gentleman who asked this Question, but the tenth paragraph of the Third Report of the Advisory Committee said this: We still consider that the first call upon Government funds should go not to alleviate conditions under the existing schemes but towards extending it to those parts of the Act not yet brought into force. It adheres to that in the Fourth Report, about which the Question is asked.

44. Mr. E. Fletcher

asked the Attorney-General whether he is aware that the latest Report of the Law Society on the operation of the Legal Aid and Advice Act containsan urgent recommendation that a legal advice scheme should be set up; and what steps he is proposing to take in the light of this recommendation.

The Attorney-General

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave the hon. Member for Norfolk, Central (Sir F. Medlicott) on 31st January.

Mr. Fletcher

Does that mean that the Government are neither going to alleviate the cases of hardship which arise under the present scheme nor extend the scheme of legal aid? Are they going to do neither one nor the other?

The Attorney-General

I announced some time ago the extension of legal aid to the county court.

Mr. E. L. Mallalieu

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that, although since Magna Carta Englishmen have had certain rights, it was only after the passing of the Legal Aid and Advice Act that they were able to enforce them? Would he not agree that it is desirable at the earliest possible moment to extend the right to have legal advice authoritatively so that all citizens may know what are those rights which they are entitled to enforce at law?

The Attorney-General

As one of those who signed the Rushcliffe Committee's Report, I am naturally in favour of legal aid and advice being provided as soon as it can be.