HC Deb 21 May 1953 vol 515 cc2239-41
19. Mr. Janner

asked the Minister of Education what is the fall in the demand for school meals since charges were increased.

Miss Horsbrugh

I have asked local education authorities to furnish me with returns about the number of children taking meals on a day in June. I expect to receive these returns early in July.

Mr. Janner

Is the right hon. Lady aware that, meanwhile, the numbers taking these meals are dropping very considerably, for example, I think that in South-West Middlesex they are 7,000 a week fewer? Will she assist by reducing the cost of meals?

Miss Horsbrugh

I am awaiting the return of the local authorities in June, but, to console the hon. Member, I can tell him that the experience he has quoted is not universal.

Mr. Chetwynd

Can the right hon. Lady say why the Secretary of State for Scotland has been able to get comparable figures for Scotland and she has not been able to get them for England? Do not the overall preliminary figures show a decline of something like 20 per cent.?

Miss Horsbrugh

I would be the last person to say that in any way the Scots have been able to do this more quickly than the English—[HON. MEMBERS: "They have done it."] I thought the best way was to give an actual time. I do not want to ask local authorities for returns too frequently, but I have asked them to give me the return in June and I shall be getting the figures in July.

Mr. Legh

Can my right hon. Friend say what the fall in demand was when the charges were put up by the Labour Government?

Miss Horsbrugh

I can get those figures if my hon. Friend puts down a Question.

29. Mr. Slater

asked the Minister of Education how many school dinners have been served in County Durham for the first three months of this year; and how the figure compares with the first three months of last year.

Miss Horsbrugh

I regret that I am unable to give the information asked for.

Mr. Slater

Why is the Minister unable to give the information asked for in the Question? It deals with only one local authority. Why cannot she give that information?

Miss Horsbrugh

Local education authorities are asked annually for special returns of the number of dinners supplied to children on a particular day in October. We get that annual return, and I do not think it would be right to continue to press teachers and local education authorities to give the statistics too frequently. We are asking them this year to get the numbers for a day in June and to let me have them in July.

Mr. Slater

Does the Minister seek to infer that the records are not kept, week by week, of the number of meals served to the children in the respective areas of education authorities? Is it not correct to say that the right hon. Lady could get the information asked for in the Question if she desired to have it?

Miss Horsbrugh

The local education authorities certainly keep these records, and they have to send up a return once a year. The hon. Member is perfectly correct; the local authority has this record and the hon. Gentleman would get it from the local authority if he asked for it.

Mr. Murray

Is the Minister aware that the officials of Durham County Council would be only too glad to give the figures if they were asked for?

Miss Horsbrugh

No doubt the hon. Gentleman's hon. Friend will ask for them.

Mr. H. Hynd

On a point of order. When an hon. Member puts down a Question on the Order Paper, and when, to get the information, the Minister has only to make a telephone call, is it not due to the hon. Member concerned that the Minister should go to that limited amount of trouble?

Mr. Speaker

I do not think there is any point of order in that.