HC Deb 07 May 1953 vol 515 cc559-60
32. Mr. Braine

asked the Minister of Health the figures of recognised bed space set aside for mental defectives in England and Wales at the latest convenient date; the number of bed? not used for lack of staff or other reasons; the number of defectives actually occupying beds; and the number awaiting admission, showing adults and children, separately.

Mr. Iain Macleod

On 31st December last, including certified institutions and approved homes outside the National Health Service, the bed figures were as follows: recognised bed space, 50,401; out of use, 1,921; occupied, 53,914. The waiting list figures of regional hospital boards totalled 8,714, including 4,487 children.

Mr. Braine

While congratulating my right hon. Friend on what seems to be a striking improvement in the accommodation figures since last year, may I ask whether he has observed that the waiting list has not shortened, and could he continue, therefore, to bear this in mind? For example, in my constituency there are children who have been on the waiting list for five years. Will he continue to press on with the good work already in hand?

Mr. Macleod

Yes, certainly. Frankly, the main difficulty here is that we need more money for capital expenditure in this field. For a long time I have said that, when it becomes available, the mental health service should have first claim.

Mr. Shurmer

Does not the Minister agree that there is a chance to help the position by discharging a number of mental defectives who have been in those institutions for a number of years but who could be useful in industry outside, and who could have people to look after them if necessary, thereby making room for the bad cases who ought to go in?

Mr. Macleod

I have heard that said and, of course, I look with great care into individual cases sent to me. However, there have been many examples-there must be one particularly tragic one in people's minds—about what happens when a mental defective is perhaps allowed out too early.

Mr. Popplewell

Is the Minister aware that this question is acute in the North-East, and will he give encouragement to the North-Eastern Regional Hospital Board to incur additional expenditure in order to provide more beds there, and will he do his best to undertake further development generally to deal with these unfortunate people?

Mr. Macleod

Yes, I am aware that it is as bad, if not worse, in the North-East Region. I took advantage of a recent visit to discuss this matter with the Regional Board, but—and I do not hide this from the House—the ultimate answer is increased capital expenditure in this field.

Mr. S. Silverman

Is it not the case that one tragic instance to which the Minister referred was that of a man who had committed murder before being certified, and that this is no reason for continuing to retain in custody, sometimes for 20 or 25 years, people who have never shown any criminal tendency of any kind?

Mr. Macleod

I think, with respect, that the hon. Member is wrong on that case. The person in my mind was a defective before.