School Meals, Charges

HC Deb 16 June 1953 vol 516 cc730-3

30. Mr. Carmichael

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the number of persons who have been dismissed, or will be dismissed, from the school meal service in consequence of the decrease in the number of children receiving school meals.

Mr. Henderson Stewart

According to information which I have obtained from the education authorities of the four cities and of the six counties with the largest populations, 70 full-time and 389 part-time workers have been dismissed and a further 42 part-time workers will be dismissed at the end of the current session.

Mr. Carmichael

Is the Minister aware that the majority of the 70 dismissed are superannuated and of an age which will make it very difficult for them to find employment? In addition, is he aware that as a result of this there is a complete breakdown in the meals service in Scotland? Will he speak to his right hon. Friend and try to get him to alter the charges and bring the figures back to the pre-March figures.

Mr. Stewart

It is wrong for the hon. Member to talk about a "complete breakdown." That is not the case. I have every reason to believe that as the months go by, and parents realise the changes which have been made, the numbers will go back to the former total and, I sincerely hope, will actually increase.

Mr. Hamilton

Can the Minister say what steps are taken by local authorities to ensure that where people are dismissed those kept on are people who most need the wages? I refer to widows and other such people.

Mr. Stewart

That is a matter for the local authorities. It would not be right for the Government to interfere in matters of that kind.

Mr. McInnes

Is the Minister aware that the Scottish Office have indicated to the local authorities that the minimum economy they hope to achieve is 10 per cent., which will involve almost 1,000 part-time and full-time workers?

Mr. Stewart

I do not know how the hon. Member arrives at that figure. The total dismissed so far of whom we have any notice, or are likely to be dismissed, are no more than a fraction.

31. Mr. Carmichael

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will now state what the financial saving will be during 1953–54 as a result of the decision to increase the charges for school meals.

Mr. Henderson Stewart

The financial saving in 1593–54 is expected to be about £250,000 in Scotland.

Mr. Carmichael

When the Minister answered my earlier Question he indicated that there would be no breakdown in the service, but there is a saving of £250,000 on the figures which have been given which show a reduction of 10 per cent. going up to 15 per cent. in many places. If this is the way in which the Government are to solve their economic problems, it is a miserable way in which to tackle education in Scotland.

Mr. Stewart

To put this matter in its right proportion I would point out that on the two earlier occasions when the school meal prices were raised by the previous Government there was a fall of 6 per cent. and 4 per cent. in the number of children taking meals. At this point, as a result of the last increase, the figure is 128 per cent. I hope that that will be lowered a great deal.

Mr. Woodburn

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that when the earlier changes took place there was full employment with plenty of money coming into the homes, and today the situation is changed? Will the hon. Gentleman ask his right hon. Friend to inquire into the loss that will occur from the point of view of deterioration in the health of the children if this service suffers in any serious degree?

Mr. Stewart

I fully accept the view of the right hon. Gentleman. I want more children to take school meals. We have altered the whole system. We have introduced partial remission, which was quite new in nearly every county——

Mr. McInnes

No.

Mr. Stewart

It was. I could quote figures. I hope that with the provision of free meals it will not be impossible for any child who needs a meal to get it.

33. Mr. Hamilton

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether, in view of the reduction in the numbers of school meals consumed since the introduction of the recent price increase, he will undertake to re-examine the matter after six months with a view to reducing the price at least to the pre-lst March figure.

Mr. Henderson Stewart

No, Sir. My right hon. Friend has taken steps to ensure that the increase need not deprive any child of a dinner because of financial hardship, by requiring education authorities to have schemes of partial remissions as well as arrangements for free meals and I hope that the fall in the number of children taking meals will only be temporary as it was after the increases made in 1950 and 1951.

Mr. Hamilton

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that when representatives of the Fife County Council met the Secretary of State some time ago the right hon. Gentleman gave a specific assurance that in six months' time the whole matter would be reviewed with a view to putting the charge back to where it was? Will the hon. Gentleman give an undertaking that if the figures do not get back in six months to where they were before 1st March, he will reconsider the increased charge?

Mr. Stewart

No, Sir. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is wrong about that. No such assurance was given to the Fife County Council or anybody else. We are taking a new count this month the result of which I hope will be available for the education Estimates debate. I have every hope and desire that the numbers shall quickly be restored to what they were.