HC Deb 11 February 1953 vol 511 cc388-90
17. Mr. Chetwynd

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs why facilities are being given for the training of German officers and non-commissioned officers as instructors in Britain; and to what extent these arrangements include provisions for the training of airmen.

Mr. Nutting

Certain proposals for association between our Forces and those of the European Defence Community were recently communicated to the six signatories of the European Defence Community Treaty. No detailed arrangements or commitments have yet been made but the proposals envisage the cooperation of our Forces in the training of all three Services. Since the European defence forces will form an important part of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation's European command, it is in Britain's own interests to help to promote their efficiency.

Mr. Chetwynd

But is it right to take this very risky gesture at this time when the E.D.C. has not been ratified by Western Germany, when there is a recrudescence of Nazism there, when our own air training facilities are being cut down, and when the public conscience has not recovered from the effects of German bombing in the last war?

Mr. Nutting

As regards the last part of the supplementary question, it will not have escaped the attention of the hon. Gentleman that the E.D.C. forces will contain no German Luftwaffe. These are only proposals that we have put forward in an effort to help along the creation of the European Defence Community. Any training requirements that will be decided upon will have to be co-ordinated with the extensive training requirements of out own Forces in Germany.

Mr. Shinwell

Will the hon. Gentle. man understand that while it may be necessary under E.D.C. to undertake the training of German troops in Germany or on the Continent, any attempt to train German troops in this country will meet with the strongest opposition?

Mr. Nutting

I understand it is anticipated that the training of E.D.C. forces with British Forces will take place primarily with the British Army of the Rhine and the British Tactical Air Force in Germany, but I see nothing objection. able to training individual members and allowing individual members of the European Defence Community forces, of whatever nationality, to come and train in British staff colleges and in other units where N.C.O.'s of the European Defence Community can best be trained.

Mr. Shinwell

Do we understand from what the hon. Gentleman has just said that the Government have taken a firm decision in this matter, and that it is their intention to allow Germans to come to this country to be trained in British staff colleges? Is that a firm decision?

Mr. Nutting

The right hon. Gentleman clearly did not hear my original answer when I said that no final commitments have been made. We have merely put forward proposals to the Interim Commission of the European Defence Community for their consideration and discussion with us.

Mr. Gordon Walker

Could the hon. Gentleman say whether we or the Bonn Government would pay for these training facilities?

Mr. Nutting

I should like notice of that.

Major Beamish

Why should the party opposite be trying to wriggle out of the logical outcome of their own policy?

Mr. J. Hynd

While the Minister may be right in saying that there is no sound technical reason why this should not take place, does he not appreciate that there are strong psychological reasons why it should not be done?

Mr. Nutting

I have said that primarily the training will take place with the British Army of the Rhine and with the British Tactical Air Force, but for myself I see no reason why other training facilities should not be made available to individual officers and N.C.O.s in this country.

Brigadier Prior-Palmer

Would it not he right to say that if and when a German Army does come into E.D.C. and they are to be equipped with British equipment such as tanks and other fighting vehicles, they must learn about those things, and that the only possible places where they can learn are in the training establishments of this country? There are no training establishments of that sort in Germany.

Mr. Nutting

Of course, and no doubt they will be equipped with whatever armaments the Board of Commissioners of the European Defence Community sees fit to order. That is, as the House knows, an international programme which will be under the control of the Board of Commissioners. Might I also point out that this is the logical outcome of the policy of the late Government and the logical outcome of the Washington Declaration for which they were responsible.

Mr. Shinwell

Nothing of the sort.

Mr. Ede

Are we to understand from the answers of the hon. Gentleman that an intimation has been given to the European Defence Community that if the facilities to train those people in this country should be asked for, they will be granted?

Mr. Nutting

The right hon. Gentleman, if I may respectfully suggest it, should read the answer that I have given. No final commitments have been entered into, but certain proposals for common training between the British Forces and the E.D.C. forces have been made to the Interim Commission of the E.D.C.

Mr. Chetwynd

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.