§ 5. Miss Burtonasked the Minister of Food whether he has received the letter sent by Mrs. Joyce Mew, chairman of the British Housewives' League, concerning high prices of food; and what reply has been sent.
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeYes Sir. The chairman's attention has been drawn to the debate on the cost of living which took place in this House on 10th November.
§ Miss BurtonCould the Minister say why he thought fit to send a reply to the Housewives' League when he could not do so to the old age pensioners? Might I ask him if he considers representations from the Housewives' League more valid and of greater importance than those from old age pensioners?
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeNo, I certainly do not; but the best answer to the old age pensioners was that the Government had done something for them.
§ Captain PilkingtonDid the letter in question include any appreciation of the fact that the rise in the cost of living has been checked during the last two years?
§ Mr. McGovernIs it the case that this lady has now been censured for sending that letter and that she really thought that there was still a Labour Government in office?
Mr. I. O. ThomasWill the Minister indicate whether in his reply he tried to prove that the cost of living had gone down within the last two years? Has he actually convinced the recipient of his reply of the truth of that statement?
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeI indicated that the rise had been stopped and, on exactly the same basis as that used by the previous Administration, I also told the lady that the price of food had dropped by 16 since last April.
§ 7. Mrs. Mannasked the Minister of Food if he is aware that detailed figures of the price index show increases as at 13th October last, taking January, 1952, as 100, to 119 for bread, flour, biscuits 1950 and cakes, 109 for meat, bacon, ham and fish, 116 for milk, cheese and eggs, 131 for butter, margarine and cooking fats, and 125 for tea and sugar; and, in view of the burden placed by these increases on industry, old age pensioners and house wives, what proposals he will make for easing them.
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeBy selecting particular items the hon. Member obscures the true position, which is that the index for food as a whole has fallen for the fourth month in succession, and is only 2 per cent. higher than it was a year ago,
§ Mrs. MannIs the Minister aware that I am not at all surprised at his reply, that the figures are from the Ministry of Labour Gazette and that they show this increase as from January, 1952? Is the Minister aware that under the National Health Service there are greatly improved facilities for brain surgery, and will he go to see a brain specialist?
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeThe hon. Lady had better see an oculist. The figures I have before me now are figures which have been used by the last Administration and the present Administration. I said in my answer that there has been a fall for the fourth month in succession.
§ Mr. StokesIs it not a fact that, taking bread, rice, butter, cheese, canned meat, and flour, what cost 10s. in October, 1951. now costs 15s.?
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeThe right hon. Gentleman has the same fault as his hon. Friend of picking out commodities which suit right hon. Gentlemen opposite. The foundation of the Cost of Living Index was laid by the right hon. Gentleman's hon. and learned Friends. We are using exactly the same index, and the figures I have given are correct.
§ Mr. StokesI am not complaining about the index. I am complaining about the hard fact that since the Government came into power food has gone up by 50 per cent.
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeThe right hon. Gentleman is really not speaking in accordance with fact. The fact is that there has been a steady decline in the increase which took place under the right hon. Gentleman and his colleagues.
§ Mr. StokesAre my figures right or not?—On a point of order. On an important question of this kind I am entitled to know whether the Minister accepts my figures or not.
§ Mr. SpeakerThe right hon. Gentleman asked two questions, and there are other hon. Members on his own side anxious to put further questions.
§ Mr. StokesI know, but I am not concerned with that. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] It is Mr. Speaker's business whether he accepts my point of order or not. With great respect, Mr. Speaker, is not it the responsibility of the Minister to give this information to the country? I have stated what is a fact, and he has not denied it.
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeI propose to do so now. If the right hon. Gentleman had been present during the last debate he would have had all the figures—
§ Mr. StokesI read that debate.
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeIn that case, the right hon. Gentleman must know that his figures are wrong.
§ 8. Mrs. Mannasked the Minister of Food whether, in view of further increases announced in the price of tea, he will take steps to avoid such increases by price controls.
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeNo, Sir. Tea prices in this country inevitably reflect world prices and this would be the case with or without price control.
§ Mrs. MannMay I take it that this is a case in which the right hon. and gallant Gentleman cannot question figures, since his own in the records this week show a very steep increase for all brands of tea? Does he doubt his own figures, and does he still adhere to the repetitive statement that de-control will not increase prices?
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeYes, I do. I stick to the answer which was that this would have been the case with or without price control. If the hon. Lady carries her mind back, she will recall that twice during control under the Labour Government the price of tea rose by 4d. a 1b.
§ Mr. RemnantDoes not my right hon. and gallant Friend agree that any improvement in the standard of living of Indian workers, which hon. Gentlemen opposite so often ask for, must be paid for ultimately by the consumer, and may I ask him whether he can confirm or not the report that the rise in prices in auctions recently has been due to buying on Russian account?
§ 12. Mrs. Mannasked the Minister of Food if he has considered the petition addressed to the House and containing over 2 million signatures of housewives protesting against food price increases; and what steps he proposes to take to help the prayers of the petitioners.
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeThe petition asks that the problem should be tackled by subsidies and controls. But the policy of removing controls and restoring competition has done more than controls ever did to enable the public to buy the food they want at prices which are becoming more stable that at any time since the war.
§ Mrs. MannIs it the policy of the right hon. and gallant Gentleman to shoot prices up so high that he can always say that they will remain stable? The motto over the door of the Ministry of Food is:
We not only serve; we care.Will he remove it and substitute:All hope abandon, ye who enter here."?
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeThat is unnecessary. Again I must call the attention of the hon. Lady—apparently she is determined not to look at any figures—to the fact that it is the fourth month in succession that prices have gone down.
§ Mr. LewisAs my hon. Friend mentioned 16 items in Question No. 7 and my right hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich (Mr. Stokes) mentioned half a dozen other commodities, can the Minister give us the names of half a dozen food commodities the prices of which have remained static or have dropped during the last two years?
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeI should be quite prepared to do that, but the fact is that the cost of living index is a well known and established method.
§ Mr. StokesI referred to food prices.
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeI am also talking about food and not the all-items index. I repeat that hon. Gentlemen opposite cannot quarrel with the index, for they themselves contrived it.
§ Mr. NicholsonWould it not be interesting if my right hon. and gallant Friend asked the hon. Lady if, in the course of all the great public meetings which she addresses, she would tell the people that the cost of living index and the food prices index are reckoned in precisely the same way as the Labour Government reckoned them?