§ 8. Mr. Hector Hughesasked the Secretary of State for the Colonies his latest information as to the numbers of non-European people in each of the territories of Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland who are, respectively, in favour of and against the proposed scheme of Central African Federation for those territories.
§ Mr. LytteltonI have nothing to add to the reply I gave to the hon. and learned Member's Question on 4th March.
§ Mr. HughesCan the Minister say, as many of these people have expressed themselves against federation, whether anything is being done to explain to them what federation means, or is it the intention of the Government to force federation on people who do not understand it?
§ Mr. LytteltonEvery measure I can think of has been taken to explain the nature of federation to the population of these three territories. It is sometimes a little difficult to explain the difference, for example, between federation and amalgamation, for there is no word in the language to explain it, but at the same time we are doing everything we can.
§ 13. Mr. Hector Hughesasked the Secretary of State for the Colonies his 2126 immediate policy regarding the proposed federation of Southern Rhodesia, Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland, having regard to the results of the recent elections in Southern Rhodesia and Nyasaland.
§ Mr. LytteltonThe hon. and learned Gentleman probably has in mind the recent debate in the Legislative Council in Nyasaland and the referendum in Southern Rhodesia. The federal scheme has now been approved by both Houses of Parliament here and, in view of the result of the referendum in Southern Rhodesia and the debates in the Northern Territories, Her Majesty's Government have tabled a Bill seeking Parliamentary authority to promulgate a federal constitution for these Territories.
§ Mr. HughesDoes not the right hon. Gentleman realise that the success or otherwise of federation will depend upon whether the Africans understand it and are reconciled to it or not? Is he not doing anything to explain federation to them and to reconcile them to it with a view to making it a success?
§ Mr. LytteltonThat is not the Question on the Order Paper. I have already answered the hon. and learned Member on this point and perhaps I might repeat that we are doing everything we can. In fact, those previously opposed to federation are now urging all the people affected to co-operate in making it a success.
§ Mr. StokesMay I ask the Colonial Secretary whether "Doing everything we can" means that Her Majesty's local representatives all over the Colonies are doing all they possibly can to make it quite clear what the benefits of federation are?
§ Mr. LytteltonYes, Sir. If I might add to the right hon. Member's question, they are trying to counteract the propaganda of Congress, which seeks to show to the Africans that their land tenure is at stake. We are doing everything we can. There was a Question on the Paper which has not been called about increases in broadcasts and so forth.
§ Mr. SpeakerMay I make an appeal to the House? We are going very slowly and, if each individual Question 2127 is argued at length, it is unfair to hon. Members who have Questions later on the Paper.
§ 20. Mr. Braineasked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what representations he has received to the effect that provision should be made for Africans to make an appeal to the United Nations or the International Court of Justice in connection with Federation proposals.
§ Mr. LytteltonNone, Sir. There is, of course, no provision in the United Nations Charter, the Statute of the International Court or any international instrument whereby the United Nations or the International Court would be entitled to discuss such an appeal. In particular there is no right of petition by any person or organisation to the United Nations in relation to the affairs of these territories.
§ Mr. BraineWould my right hon. Friend take steps to ensure that there is no misconception in the Central African territories which would encourage Africans to believe that the decision of Her Majesty's Government regarding federation could be overridden by a super-national authority?
§ Mr. LytteltonI am taking steps to ensure that the position is widely understood.
§ Mr. J. GriffithsMay I ask whether Her Majesty's Government have received a petition praying that the Africans may be heard at the Bar of this House, or, alternatively by a Select Committee of this House or by a joint Select Committee of both Houses, and whether any reply has been made to it?
§ Mr. LytteltonThat hardly arises from the Question on the Order Paper, but I am aware that a letter or a petition has been addressed, I think, to the Lord Chancellor or to some other Minister on this point. But I could not add anything to that at the moment.
§ Mr. GriffithsIt is reported to us, Mr. Speaker, that a petition has been presented to you and to the Lord Chancellor. May I ask of you to whom we should address Questions to find out what, if any, reply will be made?
§ Mr. SpeakerSo far as the order of the matter is concerned, Petitions to this House are governed by strict rules and 2128 only hon. Members can actually present Petitions through me. If I received a communication of that sort I should forward it to Her Majesty's Ministers with whom matters of policy lie, rather than with me. As a rule Petitions can be presented only by hon. Members with, I think, the exception of the Lord Mayor and the Sheriffs of London, who have the right also to present Petitions.
§ Mr. GriffithsIn a matter of this kind where there might perhaps be misunderstanding, and a Petition might be presented to you on the assumption that the petitioners had the right to present it, would you undertake that a reply is sent to those responsible?
§ Mr. SpeakerI will certainly undertake to do that.
§ Mr. SnowWhere it can be demonstrated that there is an undertaking or contract between the Crown direct and the chiefs in question, is there not a right to appeal to the Speaker of the House of Commons?
§ Mr. SpeakerOnly hon. Members can do that. If an hon. Member presented a Petition which is in order it would receive attention.
§ Mr. SnowIf I may repeat myself. If it can be shown that there is a direct contract or treaty between the Crown and the chiefs in question, is not there a right of appeal?
§ Mr. LytteltonMay I say that it is extremely difficult for Her Majesty's Ministers to answer questions which do not bear any relation to the Questions on the Order Paper.
§ Mr. SpeakerI think I have answered the question.
§ Mr. BennMay I ask for your guidance, Mr. Speaker? Is not your function to report to the House communications of this kind made direct to you? On certain occasions you do report to the House communications sent to you, such as condolences on the death of the Sovereign and so on. Is it not difficult, if a petition is addressed to you, for hon. Members to know how to take it further if you do not yourself report it to the House?
§ Mr. SpeakerI receive a great number of communications and were I to present them all to the House we should never do any proper business. I have a discretion in the matter, though if it concerns a matter of policy which is a matter for Her Majesty's Ministers to pronounce upon and for the House to approve or disapprove I forward it to the Minister so that appropriate action may be taken.
28. Mr. Philips Priceasked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what steps are being taken to reassure the African population of Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland that, under the federation scheme, their territories and tribal rights will be respected and that progress will be made in eliminating such colour discrimination as exists to-day in these Colonies.
§ Mr. LytteltonGovernment spokesmen at all levels are emphasising that the agreed Federal Scheme provides that the constitution will contain the fullest safeguards for African land. They are pointing out that these safeguards cannot be overthrown by the Federal or Territorial Governments but are under the special protection of the Secretary of State and her Majesty's Government. Tribal rights, being matters for the Territorial Governments, will remain as secure as they are to-day. Colour discrimination unfortunately cannot be removed by a constitutional instrument but the wider field opened up by Federation should promote partnership and co-operation between the races.
Mr. Philips PriceIn view of the extreme importance of obtaining the cooperation of the African population in Central African federation, is it not right to remove the great fears which they have of racial discrimination?
§ Mr. LytteltonAs I have said in reply to other questions, we are doing everything we can to make the position under federation clear to all those who will be affected.