Clause 10.—(DEFINITION OF MEMBERSHIP OF CIVILIAN COMPONENT OF VISITING FORCE.) (Hansard, 22 October 1952)

§ The Temporary Chairman (Mr. Arthur Colegate)
Mr. Irvine.

§ Mr. E. Fletcher
On a point of order. What is happening about Clause 9?

§ The Temporary Chairman
A new Clause 9 comes among the new Clauses. We are now on Clause 10.

§ Mr. Fletcher
I beg to move, in page 8, line 34, at the end, to insert: accompanying a visiting force and in the employ of an armed service of the sending country and. I have been asked to move this Amendment by my hon. Friend the Member for Edge Hill (Mr. Irvine). The object is to introduce another limitation on the definition of membership of "civilian component" of a visiting force.
We are, of course, in the great difficulty that we do not quite know what persons are going to be recognised as members of a civilian component for the purposes of this Bill. It may well be that it is difficult if not impossible for the Home Secretary to introduce a more precise definition into the Bill, but I hope he will agree that it is desirable in principle that this class of persons should be restricted so far as that can possibly be done. My hon. Friend did think that by introducing these words in line 34 it would ensure that no one could have the benefit of membership of a civilian component unless he was a person "accompanying a visiting force and in the employ of an armed service of the sending company."

§ Sir D. Maxwell Fyfe
I quite understand the desire of the hon. Gentleman to incorporate part of the definition of a member of a civilian component that appears in Article I of the agreement, but my advisers and the Ministers concerned have considered most carefully whether it is feasible to insert the definition of the status of members of a civilian component in the Bill. Unfortunately, we found it is not. I do not think the hon. Gentleman is surprised at the difficulty we encountered.
As I said on Second Reading, it is not satisfactory to incorporate the definition in the agreement as it lacks precision, although it is sufficient for international purposes to indicate generally what is intended. But I think that the hon. Gentleman, with his great experience of commercial cases, would appreciate the real difficulty of the phrase "in the employ of an armed service" because of its uncertainty. We found that it was too uncertain a term to use, and it was impossible to find a more 1182 satisfactory term consistent with the agreement.
Therefore, it falls to me to say for myself that I should like to assure the hon. Gentleman that, as far as the Home Office is concerned, it will not be left to mere formality or rubber stamp in the matter when it is put forward, but we shall consider it carefully. I shall have in mind the words he has just used, and try to limit it so that there can be no abuse. I ask him to appreciate when I say that there is real difficulty, that the matter has been considered, and when I say that it shall be considered so long as I have any responsibility for it.

§ Mr. Fletcher
I understand the administrative difficulty, and appreciate what the right hon. and learned Gentleman has said. I am sure he will, as his successors will, too, act in the spirit he has indicated and look carefully at this designation before he grants it. In those circumstances, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.

§ Sir D. Maxwell Fyfe
May I indicate here the same course, as the hon. and learned Gentleman the Member for Northampton (Mr. Paget) allowed me to do earlier in our proceedings, and say that I am prepared to give an undertaking to put down a suitable Amendment on Report. I do not think the words in the hon. Gentleman's Amendment quite cover the position. If he will accept the undertaking that I will consider it and put down these words then the time he would devote to the Amendment at this stage may be shortened.

§ Mr. E. Fletcher
The Home Secretary has been most helpful. In view of what he has said and the knowledge that we shall have consideration of an Amendment in approved language on the Report stage, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.