HC Deb 17 March 1952 vol 497 cc1915-7
63. Mr. Ernest Davies

asked the Minister of Transport if he will request the Central Transport Consultative Committee to consider the manner in which the British Transport Commission proposes to exercise the discretion allowed by the passenger charges scheme in relation to railways outside London, in view of its declared intention to increase railway fares thereon on 1st May.

Mr. Maclay

No, Sir. I would refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave him to a similar Question on 10th March.

Mr. Davies

I have seen that answer. Does the Minister fully appreciate that the fares outside London are to be raised on British Railways on 1st May? A lot of the dissatisfaction which arose in London at the manner in which this increase in fares was implemented was because it took place at the same time as the change in fare stages. Will the Minister see, therefore, that when the rise takes place outside London, steps are taken to prevent a similar occurrence?

Mr. Maclay

I am well aware of the substance of some of what the hon. Gentleman has said, but he must realise—and I do not want to go on repeating this, but I have to—that I am working under the structure of the 1947 Act and under that Act my answer was inevitable.

Mr. Davies

Does not the Minister agree that he has full power to ask for information from the Transport Commission? Will he not use his power to ask the Commission in what way they propose to implement the increase in fares on 1st May?

Mr. Maclay

That point was not put precisely in the hon. Gentleman's Question.

Mr. Davies

The Minister says he has no power.

64. Captain Robert Ryder

asked the Minister of Transport whether, in view of the hardship caused by the repeated rise in transport fares over recent years, he will make a statement as to the directions he will issue under Section 4 of the Transport Act, 1947, to the British Transport Commission to ensure that this burden is evenly shared in all sections of the country.

Mr. Maclay

The Passenger Charges Scheme, 1952, nòw governs the fares charged by the Commission in the London area and as from 1st May, will govern the fares charged by them outside this area. The scheme was confirmed by the Transport Tribunal after a public inquiry. This is the procedure laid down in the Transport Act and I am advised it would not be proper for me to issue directions such as those to which my hon. and gallant Friend refers.

Captain Ryder

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that when a man travels on the London Transport services, as many millions do to get to their work, he is called upon, as part of his fare, to make a contribution towards this central charges fund, whereas another man, using the municipal services in the Provinces, does not? Does not my hon. Friend think that this inequitable system ought to receive his attention?

Mr. Maclay

I will certainly study what my hon. and gallant Friend has said.

Mr. Hector Hughes

Does not the Minister consider that it would be a practical and useful thing to introduce a flat rate for passenger fares for workers going to and from their work irrespective of distance?

Mr. Maclay

I understand that the hon. and learned Gentleman has designs for a debate on this subject in a short time.

Mr. Hughes

Not on that subject.

Mr. Davies

Would not this difficulty be overcome if the Transport Act of 1947 were amended—[HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear"]—to allow for the complete nationalisation of all passenger transport?

Mr. Maclay

The first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question was very tempting to me.

Mr. Hector Hughes

On a point of order. The answer which the hon. Gentleman gave to my supplementary question contained a mistake of fact. I did not intend to discuss this matter on Friday. Will he not now answer the supplementary questicn which I asked?

Mr. Maclay

I regret that I was unable to understand the terms of the Motion which appears in the hon. and learned Gentleman's name.

[That this House, taking note of the fact that this island is treated as a unit for postal purposes but not for the carriage of essential commodities, such as fish, agricultural produce and coal; that the carriage of letters within this island is charged for by weight only and not by distance, while the carriage of such essential commodities is charged for by both weight and distance; and that this causes unfair competition, unnecessarily increases prices, restricts supplies and penalises producers and consumers all over this island, particularly those in remote districts; strongly urges the Government to introduce legislation to amend the Transport Act, so as to provide for standard freight charges, irrespective of the distance covered.]

Captain Ryder

When my hon. Friend is considering the point which I made in my Question, will he also give some indication of how the central charges fund is assessed?

Mr. Maclay

I do not think that arises out of this Question