HC Deb 01 March 1951 vol 484 cc2281-4
33. Mr. Sorensen

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many cases and for what offences 12 strokes were administered for corporal punishment during 1950 in approved schools; in approximately how many cases and for what type of offences more than six strokes were inflicted during this period; in how many cases girls were so punished; and why no regulations exist in respect of the type of offence for which corporal punishment can he imposed.

Mr. Ede

Under the Approved School Rules, 12 strokes may be administered only in exceptional cases to boys aged 15 or over, with the special approval of the school managers. There were 16 such cases in 1950. The offences in these cases included absconding, stealing, persistent unruliness, gross insolence and indecency. More than six strokes were given to boys aged 15 or over in 540 other cases in 1950, for similar offences. Apart from cases in which it was given for minor offences in the schoolroom, corporal punishment for girls in approved schools, which is restricted to girls under 15 and to a maximum of three strokes on each hand, was given in 42 cases in 1950. It is considered right that, subject to the requirements and safeguards of the Approved School Rules, the heads of approved schools should have discretion to decide whether corporal punishment is necessary in the individual circumstances.

Mr. Sorensen

Does not the Home Secretary feel a certain disquiet about this matter? [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] Unfortunately, the answer of the Minister was supplied by hon. Members on the other side of the House rather than by himself. May I, therefore, ask him whether he does not feel a certain disquiet, first, at the absence of proper regulations, and second, at the fact that 12 strokes is surely an excessive number of strokes to be administered—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."]—for a complaint which obviously must be pathological?

Mr. Ede

No, Sir, but I do feel a great sense of responsibility for the administration of these particular requirements. I think that the fact that in only 16 cases out of a very large number, 12 strokes were ordered indicates that the persons who have the responsibility of actually deciding the cases view them with a due sense of responsibility.

Brigadier Head

Is the Home Secretary aware that the hon. Member for Taunton (Mr. Hopkinson) gave me 10 strokes without reference to anybody?

Mr. Ede

Perhaps if the 12 strokes had been given the result might have been better.

34. Mr. Sorensen

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what consultation with psychologists, specialists in juvenile delinquency and other authorities has taken place in his Department during recent years in respect of appropriate discipline and punishment in remand homes and approved schools; whether particular attention has been given to the incidence of corporal punishment both as a deterrent and with regard to its alleged remedial effect on individual characters; and to what extent the experience and example of other countries in regard to this problem and the fact that corporal punishment is not administered in similar institutions in many countries has been examined in relationship to modifications of our own practice.

Mr. Ede

Methods of discipline and punishment, including corporal punishment, in remand homes and approved schools are kept under constant review, as regards their suitability and the extent of their use, by the inspectorate of the Home Office Children's Department, which includes psychiatrists, in consultation as necessary with the managers and staff of the homes and schools, who have extensive knowledge and experience of the problems presented by young offenders. A psychiatrist, and persons with wide experience of dealing with delinquents, are among the members of the committee which I appointed in November, 1948, to review punishments in prisons, Borstal institutions, approved schools and remand homes. The committee's report dealing with approved schools and remand homes is expected to be available shortly.

Mr. Sorensen

In spite of the strange levities regarding flagellation on the other side of the House, are not there numbers of psychiatrists and others who deprecate excessive corporal punishment such as that indicated in the previous answer? In these circumstances, was punishment of that character brought to the attention of the committee to which my right hon. Friend referred?

Mr. Ede

That committee, which was appointed as a result of an undertaking I gave during the passing of the Criminal Justice Act, 1948, has been very fully investigating this matter. Psychiatrists differ even more than doctors.

Mr. Sorensen

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I give notice that I shall raise this matter at the earliest opportunity, and make some reference to the strange behaviour in this respect of hon. Members opposite.