HC Deb 08 March 1949 vol 462 cc991-1003

Order for Committee read.

3.32 p.m.

The Parliamentary and Financial Secretary to the Admiralty (Mr. John Dugdale)

I beg to move, "That Mr. Deputy-Speaker do now leave the Chair."

I am afraid that hon. Members may possibly find my speech somewhat depressing today because I prepared the notes for it while in bed with jaundice, and therefore, to some extent the jaundice may be reflected in the speech. I think, however, that the contents of the speech will be sufficiently cheerful to counteract the jaundice.

We are asking for a sum of £189¼ million, which is £36¼ million more than we asked for last year, but £21 million more than we actually spent. Half of this, as hon. Members will see from the explanatory statement, is due to higher prices, in particular the cost of shipbuilding which is now some 250 per cent. higher than it was before the war; to the rundown by the use and sale of our stocks and to increased pay. The other half is due to steps which we are taking to see that the Fleet is brought to an even greater state of readiness than it is at present. The right hon. Member for West Bristol (Mr. Stanley), in the Debate on the Ministry of Defence last week, was disturbed that the resources may be, as he said, frittered away. I can assure him that we are just as concerned in the Admiralty as he is to see that every penny that we use contributes to the building of a bigger and better Fleet, and all our endeavours will be to that end.

I intend, first of all, to give an account of our stewardship during the past year, and, secondly, to make some remarks upon our plans for future naval warfare. I think that I can say that last year was a year of achievement. If hon. Members will cast their minds back, they will remember that the Leader of the Opposition expressed some doubts as to the strength of the Navy last year and was somewhat alarmed by the rapid rundown. I said at that time on behalf of my noble Friend that we had deliberately decided to run down the hostilities-only men as rapidly as possible in order to build up that year Regular Forces and to get going on a Regular R.N. basis as quickly as possible. This we have done. The results have been most satisfactory.

Let me take recruiting first. During the past year, we have accepted 19,700 men for the Royal Navy, which is very nearly our target for recruitment. There is one difficulty which we have today which I think is greater than existed before the war, and that is the very high proportion of wastage. I will give one example. Before the war, men were invalided for tuberculosis to the extent of two per thousand. Today they are invalided at the rate of seven per thousand. Let me say at once—and I want to make this abundantly clear—that this is not due to an increase in tuberculosis in the Navy, but due to the fact that there is a system of examination which enables the disease to be detected at a very much earlier stage. The net result is that we get greater wastage. All these new recruits have to be trained. We have had very big training commitments for new entries, and we continue to have a tremendous training programme for all ranks who have to be trained and re-trained in the complicated branches of naval warfare. In spite of this we have been able to close one or two naval training establishments and to reduce others very considerably during the year.

We should have been able to close more had it not been that during the past year we decided to increase the rate of intake of National Service men from 2,000 to 10,000, and this has meant a much greater commitment for training. During the past year, we have had the advantages of the deliberations of the Eastham Manpower Economy Committee presided over by His Honour Sir Tom Eastham. By and large, I can say that this Committee found that while there were cases here and there where economies could be effected, the Admiralty was, on the whole, very mindful of the need to economise in manpower. They made various suggestions, and as a result of these a Departmental Admiralty Committee was set up which has made, and is making, various recommendations. and already, as a result of those which have been accepted, some 2,500 men have been saved on shore jobs, and will now be available to go to sea.

The results of these various measures have been that today 21 ships have been re-manned including H.M.S. "Duke of York," H.M.S. "Theseus" and H.M.S. "Vengeance." The Home Fleet has been reconstituted, and last autumn it was able to go on a cruise to the West Indies on which it was accompanied for part of the way by my noble Friend—

Colonel Crosthwaite-Eyre (New Forest and Christchurch)

Was he seasick?

Mr. Dugdale

I think that the hon. and gallant Gentleman ought to know my noble Friend better than to think he would be seasick. My noble Friend had duties to perform here and had to come back to attend to those duties, otherwise I have no doubt that he would have been happy to go on with the Fleet for a longer period.

While the Fleet was on its way to the West Indies, some of the ships broke away and went to South Africa to pay a very welcome visit to that country. It is a point of interest that while the ships were on their way to South Africa, planes flew off the deck of a carrier and flew over St. Helena for the first time in history. While this was going on, H.M.S. "Vanguard" went to the Mediterranean, and I had the pleasure of sailing on board so far as Gibraltar. I think that there are few experiences—and I am sure that hon. Members who have held my position will agree—more thrilling, and certainly none more calculated to inspire one with regard for the Royal Navy, than to stand on the bridge of a large warship as she steams slowly into a great naval harbour, especially when, after a voyage of two or three days and of many hundreds of miles, she drops anchor, not just one minute before or one minute after she is due to arrive, hut absolutely dead on time. That is a very remarkable experience.

On all these various cruises that have been made by the Home Fleet and by other ships I am glad to say that the officers and men of the Navy have been received with the usual enthusiasm in every country they visited. It is an ordinary, common or garden thing to talk about the Royal Navy being received with enthusiasm. but I think we get so used to it that it is just as well it should be mentioned in these days when there is so much bad feeling, one way and another, around the world. It is a very good thing to know that our ships can go from port to port, as they do, in various parts of the globe and be received with the reception they have had—in South Africa, in South America, in Central America, and elsewhere.

The Mediterranean Fleet has also been active during the past year. The end of the Palestine patrol has enabled the Fleet to engage in tactical operations, and at the moment it is engaged in combined exercises with the Home Fleet. One thing which was of great interest to the Fleet during the past year was the visit paid by Flag Officer Air, flying his flag in H.M.S. "Triumph," to Turkey. During the course of this visit two squadrons of planes flew over the deck of his carrier, and circled over Istanbul and Ankara for the first time in history—a really remarkable event of some significance.

The Pacific Fleet has, during the past year, moved its headquarters from Hong Kong to Singapore with the object of seeing that the naval commander-in-chief is in the same place as the commanders-in-chief of the other two Services. They are now all together, and are therefore better able to co-operate in their operations. I need hardly say that the naval patrols in the vicinity of Malaya have been of considerable assistance to our troops in their very difficult engagements there.

I have talked of the active Fleet and of their work, but I should not like the House to forget the Reserve Fleet. During the past year the Reserve Fleet has, if I may put it this way, been to the tailors. No fewer than 150 ships have been refitted, and the Supplementary Estimate of £15½ million includes a quite considerable sum for this purpose. As many as possible of the ships which have been refitted are being what is called dynamically dehumidified, using the process to which I referred at some length in my speech last year, the process by which they can be adequately preserved for future use. I should like to pay tribute to the officers and men who man the Reserve Fleet. It is not a very easy job. I have talked of the reception that our men get when they go overseas. Well, the men of the Reserve Fleet do not get any reception; they sit day after day in their ships, just hammering, chipping, cleaning and painting, looking after the ships, and generally being caretakers. It is not an inspiring job, but it is one of vital importance because a good Fleet, like a good football team, must have first-class reserves, and our Fleet has got first-class reserves.

I have said that there has been a lot of refitting. There has been refitting in the Royal Dockyards, and in consequence of this, and in consequence of the naval work which has been transferred to the dockyards, repayment work has now virtually ceased. I think my hon. Friends who represent dockyard constituencies will agree with me that during the past two or three years this repayment work has been of very great value to the dockyards and to those towns. I want to make it clear that if at any time we should find that there is not enough naval work to be done in our dockyards we shall give immediate consideration to the resumption of repayment work.

I turn now to the conditions of our sailors. It is not often that Jane Austen finds a place, either in the Navy or, indeed, in politics, though it is a curious and interesting fact that my right hon. Friend—[Interruption.] I do not know what the right hon. Member for Bournemouth (Mr. Bracken) keeps muttering about. I always thought that he was rather fond of muttering from time to time and that he could not control himself as well as he might.

Mr. Brendan Bracken (Bournemouth)

In view of the invitation given me to interrupt the hon. Gentleman, I would remind him that at any rate some people have read "Mansfield Park" and knew of Miss Austen's naval relations. It may be a discovery to the Parliamentary Secretary, but it is not to us.

Mr. Dugdale

Oh, was that all? It is not very often that she refers to the Navy, but she does do so, I notice, in "Persuasion." No doubt the right hon. Member knows that already, but for the benefit of those hon. Members who do not know it, let me read what she said: The Navy, who have done so much for us. have at least an equal claim with any other set of men for all the comforts and all the privileges which any home can give. Sailors work hard enough for their comforts, we must all allow. We are determined to see that sailors shall have these comforts. In the past many of them have not had such comforts under previous Governments. I will refer for only a moment to improvements being made on board ship. First, bathrooms. What were euphemistically called "bathrooms" before the war were places where a little cold water flowed on to a lot of men. These have now been modernised: 31 have been completely modernised and 143 are in process of modernisation. Take the galleys: 42 have been modernised, and 300 automatic refrigerators have been fitted in ships which had not got them before. We have established mechanised fleet bakeries in carriers. All these things are of considerable importance to the welfare of our sailors, and therefore to the efficiency of the Navy. We are also putting in labour-saving devices—automatic chipping, scaling and paint spraying machines, which I have no doubt will be fully appreciated by those sailors who in the past have had to chip and chip and chip indefinitely, until they thought they were never coming to the end of the job.

Mr. Bracken

Do not attack the Minister of Defence.

Mr. Dugdale

I wish the right hon. Member could control himself. I know he looks like a chimpanzee, but I do not see why he should be a chattering chimpanzee.

In addition to putting in a number of labour-saving devices we have taken steps during the year to improve the pay scale. The 1946 pay scale was a considerable improvement on the pre-war scale, but last year we felt that chief and petty officers needed some improvement in their pay, and we have improved their scale quite considerably. We have at the same time introduced the repayment of family removal expenses within the United Kingdom—something of considerable importance to men who have to move about from one station to another, and who in the past have been involved in great expense if they wanted to get their families moved with them. We have also given officers an increased marriage allowance; and—something of very great importance to all new entry officers—we are giving them their first issue of uniform free.

This brings me to consideration of the new Dartmouth scheme. That scheme has, naturally, like any other scheme of such importance, had its growing pains, but it is working by and large, quite satisfactorily. The Commanding Officer and the headmaster of Dartmouth speak very highly of the new boys who have gone there, the new 16-year-old entrants; they say that they are settling down well and making a considerable contribution to the general life of the school.

There is, however, another form of officer entry which we are very anxious to encourage as far as possible, as I said before, and that is promotion from the lower deck. We have not been altogether satisfied with the speed of that during the past year or two. We have decided, therefore, to take two steps. The first is to see that all C.W. candidates, which as Members know are roughly speaking officer candidates, as soon as they become C.W. candidates shall have an opportunity to go to a large ship where they can be under the personal supervision of an instructor officer and therefore be able to keep up their studies as far as possible during the course of their ordinary work. We are seeing that they go to a special three months' course after they have passed the Fleet Selection Board and before they go to H.M.S. "Hawke." In this way, we hope that they will be better able to make the grade and that we shall get the full 25 per cent. at which we are aiming.

I come now to warrant officers. I am glad to see that my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for East Hull (Commander Pursey) is here, because during the past year, as he and other Members know, we have for the first time arranged for warrant officers to be admitted to wardrooms in exactly the same way and with exactly the same privileges as any other officer. That is an important change. But there has been some question of their titles. Warrant officers feel that if they are called "warrant officers" there is some confusion with the warrant officers in the Army who are not warrant officers in the same sense as naval warrant officers.

We have decided that they shall be given another title. Whatever title is given to them, I have no doubt that someone will take exception to it. Warrant officers and commissioned officers from warrant rank at present bear titles which describe the duties they perform as well as indicating rank. For example, we have "gunner," "bo'sun," "warrant ordnance officer" and "warrant communications officer." In future, we shall take the part of the title that describes the work they do and put in front of it the word "commissioned." Thus, we shall have "commissioned" gunner, "commissioned" bo'sun, "commissioned" ordnance officer and "commissioned" communications officer. The same process will be applied to existing commissioned officers from warrant rank, except that we shall add the word "senior." Thus we shall have "senior" commissioned gunner, "senior" commissioned ordnance officer, and so on. We intend to adopt a similar procedure for the Royal Marines. The warrant list will in future be known as the "Branch List" and the generic title will be "Branch Officers." All in future will be appointed not by warrant but by commission.

I come now to the Reserves. I have said in the past that we are satisfied with our recruiting for the Royal Navy, but we are by no means satisfied with the rate of entry to the Reserve, I should like to take this opportunity to make an appeal to all ex-hostilities officers and ratings to come forward and join if they can the R.N.V.R., or if they cannot do that, the Emergency Reserve. I hope Members of all parties who have served in the Navy during the war will join with me in making this appeal; indeed, I hope that all Members will make every possible effort in their constituencies to induce men to join the Naval Reserves, because it is vitally important that we should have these Reserves. We have, as I have said, a large Reserve Fleet, and we want to have adequate numbers of men in the Reserve forces whom we can call upon when the time comes, if it should come. I hope that we may get every support from Members in encouraging men to come forward.

Sir Patrick Hannon (Birmingham, Moseley)

Will the Financial Secretary extend that appeal to branches of the British Legion, many of which include ex-Naval men?

Mr. Dugdale

Certainly. We intend to appeal to every part of the country and to every activity in the country, but I think the best place for making such an appeal is to the House of Commons in the first instance. We shall certainly take every opportunity to use the British Legion or any other suitable body to help us in our task to get more Reserves.

I said at the commencement of my speech that I would speak first of the past and then of the future. I now come to the future. We intend to hasten slowly so far as the future is concerned. Members who have read Gibbon will remember how he says: In the first Punic War, within 60 days after the first stroke of the axe had been given in the forest, a fleet of 160 galleys proudly rode at anchor at sea. I am afraid that we cannot emulate that and hope to have 160 warships riding at sea at the end of 60 days. We have decided that it is of great importance that we should go slowly and devote large sums of money on research and development. I shall give the House a simple illustration of the sort of problems facing our research experts, because I know there is a feeling sometimes that the House is being asked to vote large sums of money for purposes that are largely unknown.

People sometimes ask how the large amount of money on research has been spent, what is happening as a result and what we are getting for the money. Suppose that the speed of aircraft were doubled and that we required the same time as before for defensive action, the range of aircraft detecting apparatus would then have to be doubled. This needs an increase in power of the detecting apparatus, not twice but many times; not simply more electricity from the mains, but research, development and design of a very high order. That is not all. Means for selecting targets to be engaged by our anti-aircraft guns, the calculating machinery which tells the guns where to point, the rate of fire of the guns and the velocity of the shells must all be improved to meet the in-increased speed of the attacker. That is one form of research.

The Admiralty are also responsible for basic electronic research for the three Services. Electronic valves and other electronic devices are vitally needed, not only for our radar and communications systems, but also in the equipment used for the detection of submarines and aircraft, in proximity fuses and in automatic target-seeking torpedoes and guided missiles. We have carried out a number of ship target trials from which we have obtained very valuable information for improvement of future designs—I refer in particular to the trials at Loch Striven. The effect of under-water explosions on hull structure and equipment of warships, far-reaching effects on vital points of future design, will make a great contribution to the ability of our warships to resist damage from all known types of weapons, as well as providing data for weapon designers. We have carried out experiments with submarines at unusual depths, far greater than have been developed before. In all these experiments the Royal Corps of Naval Constructors are playing the very valuable and very quiet part they always play.

What sort of naval warfare do we envisage? I need hardly say that the Navy's main task in any future war will be, as it has been in past wars, to protect our sea communications. What are the obstacles we shall have to encounter? Obviously, the first one that jumps to anyone's mind is the atom bomb. I think I can say that any danger which may come from the atom bomb would be probably greater ashore than afloat. So far as the Navy is concerned, the greatest danger would be in the Royal dockyards and in the shore establishments. Naturally, there could be great danger from an atom bomb at sea, but ships move about and are dispersed and therefore there is less danger to them than to shore establishments. We are planning a radiological survey to investigate penetration of gamma rays into a ship under attack by atomic weapons, and these tests will begin this year.

The second enemy which we have to encounter is the submarine. I am not referring—and I say this with great respect to the men who served in them during the last war—to the submersible vessels previously called submarines but to true submarines. In the past a submarine was something that went down below the surface of the water and then had to come to the top to breathe like an otter. It lived primarily on top of the water. Now the submarine, by using the device known as the "Snort," can stay under water three, four or five weeks, and indeed longer. Not only that but it will have considerably increased speed. Supposing our convoys are capable of a speed of ten knots and submarines increase their speed from eight, which was about their speed before the war, to 15 or even 20 knots under the water, the House will see the great change that is bound to take place in submarine warfare.

I shall not ask the House to listen to words of mine about what the result will be, but to the words of Mr. John L. Sullivan, the United States Navy Secretary, who said: With 70 per cent. of the earth covered by water and the advantages of concealment and difficult detection afforded by water, it is possible that a future conflict might involve as many battles under the sea as on the surface. This is not a dream.

As the House knows, we are working on this problem, and hon. Members will not expect me to go into details, because the work is of a highly secret nature. I can say, however, that while they are not spectacular our results are proving most satisfactory. Whatever our results are, there is no reason to suppose that other nations are not doing the same, and having equally successful results.

We have, therefore, to take steps to see that our ships are adequately defended against the submarine menace. The House will be reassured to learn that we do not consider that the modern submarine is invulnerable. Its greatest enemy is the frigate, of which we have today about 150, and these form a very large part of our Reserve Fleet. We are also making a prototype of two fast frigates converted from existing destroyers, which will have considerably increased speed. If this scheme is successful we shall carry out a very much bigger conversion programme later. We are launching five further destroyers next year. Incidentally we shall be launching one before the end of this financial year, and I shall have the pleasure of going to Glasgow to see it launched by my wife. We are making progress in a new anti-sumbarine weapon. We hope to get the prototype in a destroyer for trials this year. We hope, in short, that we shall be able to make the life of even the most modern types of submarine both hazardous and uncomfortable.

The third enemy with which we have to contend is aircraft. I know the atom bomb is dropped by them, but I am speaking now of general aircraft attack. In a future war the Atlantic might become like the Mediterranean was in the last war, with England taking the place of Malta. We have to see that we have adequate defence against enemy air attacks upon our convoys, and it is not only the question of defence but of offence too. If we have strongly supported carriers we may be able to take them within perhaps 100 miles or even 50 miles of the enemy coastline, from which planes can be dispatched hundreds of miles over enemy territory. It is, therefore, of great importance both for the defensive and offensive that we should have these carriers.

We propose, therefore, to spend quite considerable sums of money on Naval aviation this year, and hon. Members will see that for that purpose £15¾ million has been allocated. We have now five Fleet and six Light Fleet carriers. We are continuing with the construction of two Fleets, while H.M.S. "Eagle" is expected to be completed at the end of next year. Work has been suspended on four Light Fleets and work is now proceeding on another four, one of which has already been launched and H.M.S. "Hermes" is due to be launched next year. We intend completely to modernise the carrier "Formidable." This carrier will be taken into dock and will have its lifts, its arrester gear, its catapults, and its island structure completely altered so that it will be able when ready to fly off the very latest type of plane.

While I am on the subject of construction I should like to take this opportunity to tell the House that we have just decided on the conversion of the 21-year old County Class cruiser, H.M.S. "Cumberland," into the first trials cruiser the Royal Navy has ever had. We shall start next month and the ship will be ready in 1951. We shall be able to try out anti-aircraft guns, torpedoes and guided missiles. This ship will be the first large ship that will be so equipped and it will be fitted with fin stabilisers to reduce rolling and thus increase the accuracy of firing.

I should like to say a word on the course of this construction, because as I mentioned earlier we are very desirous of showing that we do not waste any money and the House should know the reason for some of these very high costs. For example, a carrier before the war had radio but it had no radar. The cost of equipping a carrier with radio was £12,000. Today the cost of equipping that same carrier with radio alone would be £100,000, and over and above that the cost of equipping it with radar would be £192,000. Instead, therefore, of a cost of £12,000 before the War the cost today is no less than £292,000. That is not just a question of higher prices, but of the fact that so much more equipment has to be placed in a modern warship than had to be placed in it before.

While I am on the subject of naval aviation, I think the House would like me to remark for a moment on the brilliant and successful visit of one of our naval air squadrons to New York for the International Air Exhibition. Our papers last year could not give as much space as we would like to certain subjects, and at any rate they were not large enough to print all that we should like to see printed. I would refer therefore, to the American papers for a description of what happened at this Exhibition. I need hardly add that these are not my words. They are not English but American in their phraseology. Here is what the American Press said: