HC Deb 26 July 1949 vol 467 cc2390-2

Lords Amendment: In page 17, line 1, leave out from "time" to "is" in line 3 and insert "while a special hours certificate."

Mr. Younger

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

This removes a former limitation in the Bill as it stood. It would not have been possible for the Commissioner to apply for the revocation of a licence in the first 12 months, and the object of that was to give time for an hotel or restaurant to work up to the full use of the new provisions. There has now been inserted a new Clause defining the requirements of Clause 24 (2), showing that the requirements are that there should be certain use for dancing and refreshments six days a week. It is quite clear that it would be wrong that it should be possible for that establishment not to fulfil that requirement and to use the premises only occasionally or perhaps only once or twice a week, and it no longer seems necessary.

Lords Amendment: In page 17, line 17, at beginning, insert: or that on the whole the persons resorting to the premises or part are there at times when the sale or supply of intoxicating liquor therein is lawful by virtue only of the special hours certificate, for the purpose of obtaining intoxicating liquor rather than for the purpose of dancing or obtaining refreshments other than intoxicating liquor.

10.15 p.m.

Mr. Younger

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

This Amendment provides additional grounds on which the Commissioner of Police may apply for the revocation of a special hours certificate. It had to be inserted owing to the difficulty of applying to registered clubs the criterion which was originally applied to hotels and restaurants under Clause 19. The House may remember that it was a condition that they must qualify for the reduced licence duty by virtue of the fact that their receipts from sale of liquor would not exceed a certain amount. It is not possible to apply that to clubs. Originally, clubs did not come into this particular provision of the Bill, and, therefore, it was possible to be content with that provision, but now that they are in, it is necessary to attain the same objective by the new form of words proposed to be inserted.

Mr. Marlowe (Brighton)

Before we leave that, could the hon. Gentleman give us a little guidance about it? As far as I know it is an entirely new form of wording to say that on the whole the persons resorting to etc.

There have been words in the Statute before to the effect that "in the main" something happens or "on general principles," something happens, but never, so far as I know, have I seen wording of this kind. If the hon. Gentleman could give us some guidance about it and indicate that it is a well accepted form, we shall, of course, have no difficulty in agreeing with him. I am bound to say that it is an entirely new one on me, and I should be obliged if the hon. Gentleman or his right hon. Friend could give us some assistance in regard to it.

Mr. Grimston

I think it would be a good thing if we could have some information about this because though it may be a lawyer's point, I think it is important, and if the right hon. Gentleman can give us any information about it, we shall be much obliged.

Mr. Ede

I cannot say that I know of any precedent for it, but I think the phrase is well understood by ordinary people. However, I am not so certain that perhaps a lawyer might not find something in the point. I am sorry it has arisen in this way, but the great legal batteries that are usually brought to bear on these Bills in another place were apparently satisfied with the words, and I think that must be the best safeguard. I do recall once in this House during the 1929–31 Parliament my right hon. and learned Friend the Chancellor being asked by the late Sir Dennis Herbert how a hole would be valued for land value purposes. He replied, "as a whole," and one gathered that the reporters had some difficulty in writing the two words when they transcribed their notes.

Lords Amendment: In page 17, line 18, at end, insert: () At any time while a special hours certificate granted under section twenty of this Act is in force the Commissioner of Police for the metropolis may apply to the magistrate for the revocation of the certificate on the ground that the revocation thereof is expedient by reason of the occurrence of disorderly or indecent conduct on the premises or part to which the certificate relates; and if the magistrate is satisfied as to the ground of the application he shall revoke the certificate.

Mr. Younger

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

This Amendment will enable the Commissioner of Police to apply for a revocation of a special hours certificate on account of disorderly or indecent conduct. It is limited to clubs because the existing law already provides for the case of licensed premises.