CLAUSE 54.—(Provisions as to entry and inspection.) (Hansard, 28 June 1948)

§ Mr. Younger
I beg to move, in page 36, line 19, at the beginning, to insert: It shall be the duty of local authorities from time to time to cause children in voluntary homes in their area to be visited in the interests of the wellbeing of the children, and. This Amendment will put local authorities under a duty to visit children in voluntary homes in their areas. The Clause as it stands empowers a local authority to enter a voluntary home for the purpose of visiting the children in the home. On reflection we think it would be better to put the duty on the local authority to do this. It has always been envisaged that local authorities should do it. This Amendment merely makes the matter a little more clear, and slightly alters the emphasis.

§ Commander Galbraith (Glasgow, Pollok)
I am quite in agreement with the Amendment, but I should like to be quite certain as to one aspect of this matter before assenting to it. Visitation and inspection, I think, are desirable, What I do not think would be desirable is to empower local authorities to interfere with voluntary homes. I want to be assured that while the local authority will visit and inspect, it can go no further except through the Home Secretary himself. It would be wrong if local authorities were able to give directions to the managers of voluntary homes. If a local authority has anything to complain of, I want to know that the complaint will be made to the right hon. Gentleman, and will be transmitted by him to the managers of the voluntary home.

§ Lieut.-Colonel Sir Thomas Moore (Ayr Burghs)
I should like to stress the point made by my hon. and gallant Friend. May we have an assurance that these visits, if and when it is found necessary that they should take place, will take place in co-operation with the organisation or society controlling the home? We do not want, as my hon. and gallant Friend has said, these quite well intentioned snoopers going into homes and making themselves possibly, un 1847 pleasant, unless there is a pretty good reason for that. If the visits are paid in good humoured and good natured co-operation with the society running the home, then, undoubtedly, there is nothing wrong about them; and it is rather a good thing that the visits should be paid, for it is a good thing that the children should be kept under observation, especially if they are outside the area of the local authority and thus somewhat removed from contact with it. I am sure the Committee will agree that it is essential that these great societies which have done and are doing so much voluntary work, should have their rights preserved to run their own homes in their own way, without undue interruption or interference.

§ Dr. Barnett Stross (Hanley)
The wording of this Amendment does not include the word "inspection" at all. It speaks of visits "in the interests of the wellbeing of the children." All of us agree that many of the voluntary homes are great institutions; but I think that, equally, all of us are satisfied that there have been several voluntary homes that have not come up to standard; and I should like an assurance—I think all of us would like an assurance—that visiting here does include inspection, without, however, including multiple interference which would upset those who run the homes. It seems to me that if we provide for visiting only, the purpose of the Amendment will be so circumscribed that the Amendment will achieve nothing useful at all, but, perhaps, friction and confusion. I wonder if it should include provision for inspection specifically, as well as for visiting?

§ Mr. Sidney Marshall (Sutton and Cheam)
I wonder if the hon. Gentleman would indicate what "visiting" means and what powers the local authorities will be able to exercise? Will they be able to inspect homes? Will the local authorities have any powers or authority to do anything? What will they be able to do if they find something of which they disapprove?

§ Mr. Skinnard (Harrow, East)
It seems to me that the form of the Amendment covers all the precautions that hon. Members wish to be taken. I have had some experience of visiting homes, and if one 1848 is interested in a particular child in any of these homes, the general custom is for the management of the home to insist on an informal inspection taking place, because they are very anxious that the visitor should see the way in which the child is being brought up. They desire the whole background of their care for him to be shown. I am glad that the word "inspection" is not used. The purpose is not investigation but co-operation. I think that the choice of words is particularly good, because they focus the purpose of the visit on the well-being of the particular child in the care of the local authority, and, at the same time, do not prevent visiting in a fuller sense being carried out by the local authority. I hope that the Committee will accept the Amendment in the terms in which it has been couched.

Mr. Dtumpleton (St. Albans)
If this Amendment is necessary—as I believe it is—it is obvious that there should be visitation at fairly regular intervals, and I should like my hon. Friend to give some clearer definition, if he can, of what is meant by the phrase "from time to time." It is possible that some less active local authority may be satisfied with a visit once in 10 years. Will that be covered by the phrase "time to time"? Cannot some words such as "not less frequently than annually" be inserted?

§ Mr. Kenneth Lindsay (Combined English Universities)
Can the hon. Gentleman say why the Amendment has been put down at all, and in response to what plea in the Committee upstairs?

§ Mr. Younger
I do not think that the Amendment was put down in response to anything that was said in Committee. It was felt by my right hon. Friend that it would be better to make it a duty of the local authorities, rather than merely give them the power, which they already have under the Clause, to visit these homes. The hon. and gallant Member for Pollok (Commander Galbraith) can rest assured that the Amendment gives no additional powers, nor does it involve inspections in any technical sense. The object of it is to ensure that those concerned with children in the local authority and in the voluntary organisations in the area, shall be in touch with each other. I do not think that I can add anything to the definition "visit." 1849 Anything in the nature of powers arising out of what may be found as the result of the visit is a matter for the Home Secretary, and I think that should be so. Any duplicating or overlapping powers should not be granted. I hope that the Committee will accept the assurance that there are no new powers involved by the Amendment, and that the only difference between the Amendment and the Clause is that, whereas the Clause empowers the local authority to keep in touch, the Amendment makes it a duty for them to do so.