HC Deb 11 February 1948 vol 447 cc350-1
7. Mr. J. P. L. Thomas

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty whether he will now consider the re-publication, of the customary prewar document known as the "Return of Fleets," in view of the publication by the Navy League, in the magazine "Navy," of the operational strength of the fleets.

Mr. Dugdale

The question of re-publishing "Fleets" has been considered but up to date information is not available in respect of all foreign fleets and considerations of security do not admit of publication of information relating to British vessels.

Mr. Thomas

Is the Financial Secretary aware of the growing uneasiness both in this House and in the country about the continued silence of the Government as to the whereabouts and composition of our fleets and squadrons; and why cannot this House be told whether the Government confirm or deny the statements about the Royal Navy which are coming to us from all parts of the world's Press, when all the news we get is of the scrapping of battleships at a most unfortunate time?

Mr. Dugdale

In regard to the last part of the question, which is perhaps the most important, I suggest that the Admiralty should not take any person's guess and simply say that it is right or not right. If that is done, one paper after another can continue to publish guesses until at last they get the right guess. That is not the method which the Admiralty intend to pursue.

Commander Galbraith

In view of the hon. Gentleman's reference to security, does he realise that every foreign Power knows exactly the state of the British Fleet today, and that that information is being concealed only from the British public and Members of this House, who ought to have it?

Mr. Dugdale

I am interested to know that the hon. Gentleman has such knowledge of what foreign Powers know. I personally have no such knowledge.

Mr. Skeffington-Lodge

Can the hon. Gentleman account for the leakage to this publication "Navy," and will he, in this House, emphatically condemn the proprietors of that magazine for blaring forth information which, on security grounds, is withheld from the House?

Mr. Dugdale

I do not admit for a moment that it was a leakage. It was simply a guess.

Sir Patrick Hannon

Was not this kind of information issued by the Admiralty for a series of years before the war, and why cannot it be continued now? Is this an instance in which the Navy League must give a lead to the Admiralty?

Commander Noble

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there are no half measures about an iron curtain and that if he intends to withhold information it is no good saying what is being scrapped—one must have both sides of the picture?

Commander Galbraith

Does the hon. Gentleman deny the accuracy of the figures stated in this publication?

Mr. Dugdale

I have already said that if I deny them it simply gives somebody else an opportunity of producing another set of figures. One can play that game indefinitely until the right result is achieved.

Sir R. Ross

Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that ever since Sir Charles Dilke started this publication it is entirely without precedent in peacetime to conceal the strength or weakness of the Fleet from this House and the country; and does he intend to rely upon the perpetual secrecy of Russia in not telling us the strength of her Fleet in order never to publish the "Return of Fleets" again?

Mr. Thomas

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's replies, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible opportunity.