HC Deb 30 July 1946 vol 426 cc918-20

Lords Amendment: In page 83, line 14, leave out "three", and insert "four."

10.30 p.m.

Mr. J. Griffiths

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

This Amendment, and the next two— namely, in line 17, leave out "seven" and insert "eight" and in line 32, after "workers" insert: (c) one after consultation, with friendly societies or organisations representative of friendly societies; —are consequential Amendments. The one I am moving is to provide for the representation of the friendly societies on the National Insurance Advisory Committee, and in order to permit of an increase in the total number of the Committee from seven to eight.

Mr. Speaker

I will put the three Amendments together. The Question is, therefore, "That the House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendments."

Mr. R. A. Butler

I can now address the Minister in a slightly more agreeable tone. I would like to ask him what is the meaning of the words: after consultation with friendly societies or organisations representative of friendly societies. in the third Amendment. It is very satisfactory to know that there is to be a representative, and that the number is to be increased, but could the Minister describe to the House how consultation will take place. I understand that the friendly societies are well satisfied to have this extra concession, but would like to know how consultation is to be achieved. Will it be through the representative organisation, and will that organisation change its representatives after a certain time, for example, to represent the various views of the friendly societies, or will the representation be centralised in their organisations?

Mr. Griffiths

The method to be employed is a familiar one, and is actually already provided for under the Bill. I would make it perfectly dear that the member is the choice of the Minister, but the Minister, under the terms of the Bill, is obliged to consult, for example, the employers' organisations and similarly the workmen's organisations. I would not like, in this instance, to commit myself in a field which perhaps is not as clearly defined as the provisions affecting consultations

National Service (Armed Forces) Act, 1939—
Section six Postponement certificates. For the references to the umpire or any deputy umpire appointed by His Majesty for the purposes of the Unemployment Insurance Act, 1935, there shall be substituted references to the umpire or any deputy umpire appointed by His Majesty for the purposes of the Reinstatement in Civil Employment Act, 1944.
Part It of the Schedule Constitution of Military Service (Hardship) Committee. For the reference to one or other of the panels constituted under section forty-one of the Unemployment Insurance Act, 1935, there shall be substituted a reference to any panel constituted for the purposes of section forty-three of this Act in connection with the establishment of the local tribunals referred to in subsection (3) of that section, and for the reference to a person holding the office of chairman of a court of referees under the said section forty-one there shall be substituted a reference to a person holding the office of chairman of any such local tribunal as aforesaid."
Mr. J. Griffiths

I beg to move "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

Mr. Rhys Davies

I see there is a reference in the side headings in the Amendment to "National Service Armed Forces Act, 1939," and a second one to "Constitution of Military Service (Hardship) Committee." I would like to be satisfied about the position here. I would not like to see any of the existing benefits in this connection lost by any change in this matter.

Mr. J. Griffiths

I am satisfied about the position. When the National Service Armed Forces Act came into operation, provision was made for the necessary appeals, and this Amendment is to make it possible for the procedure used in the Courts of Referees to be continued for the purpose for which they are now in use. I think all hon. Members will agree that the methods that have been used in these hardship cases have been a great improvement on those applied after the 1914–18 war.

Mr. R. A. Butler

We on this side of the House agree with the Minister's defini-

with employers or workmen's organisations, but we shall follow the same procedure; we shall consult the societies' organisations which are represented as to the appointment of the member to serve on the committee.