HC Deb 23 July 1946 vol 425 cc1874-6
62. Mr. Lennox-Boyd

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether he is aware that 282 officials are entitled to sign S.R. & Os, on behalf of eight Ministers, namely, the President of the Board of Trade, the Ministers of Health, Fuel and Power, Transport, Agriculture, Supply, Labour and the Secretary of State for Scotland; and whether he will limit this authority to not more than three senior officers in any one Ministry.

The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Glenvil Hall)

Consideration is being given to the possibility of reducing the lists of officials empowered to authenticate Statutory Rules and Orders made by the Ministers referred to. It will, however, not be feasible to apply so severe a /imitation as the hon. Member suggests. The fact that a particular official signs an Order does not, of course, mean that he makes it. The Order is made by the responsible Minister, and the signature is merely to authenticate.

Mr. Lennox-Boyd

While appreciating that answer, may I ask the hon. Gentleman if he does not agree that the only remedy the public have against abuse of this power is by negative Prayer, and that as the Orders have the force of law the number of our non-Parliamentary rulers should be drastically reduced?

Mr. Glenvil Hall

The officials empowered to authenticate these documents are frequently laid down in Statutory Rules and Orders, and although the number may seem large at the moment by no means all the officials sign the Orders.

Major Guy Lloyd

Would not the hon. Gentleman agree that his reply is a veiled tribute to the "active back benchers"?

Captain John Crowder

Could the hon. Gentleman give a guarantee that the Ministers concerned actually see the Orders which are signed by the officials?

Mr. Glenvil Hall

Yes, Sir, and, of course, they are responsible for them.

Captain Crowder

But do they understand all of them?

Mr. Snadden

Did anyone see the Oatmeal Order?

63. Colonel Crosthwaite-Eyre

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury the average length of service of the civil servants who are entitled to sign S.R. & Os, for the following Ministers, respectively: President of the Board of Trade, Minister of Health, Minister of Labour, Minister of Fuel and Power, Minister of Transport, Minister of Agriculture, Minister of Supply and the Secretary of State for Scotland.

Mr. Glenvil Hall

As the answer is long, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Following is the answer:

The following table gives the average length of service of the officials empowered to authenticate Statutory Rules and Orders made by the Ministers quoted:

Years.
President of the Board of Trade 19
Minister of Health 27
Minister of Labour 30
Minister of Fuel and Power 25
Minister of Transport 26
Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries 25
Minister of Supply 29
Secretary of State for Scotland 26