§ 47. Mr. Palmerasked the Prime Minister whether Servicemen who are released and on re-settlement leave during the election will be entitled to take an active part in political work.
§ Sir J. AndersonThis Question deals only with the limited category of Servicemen on release leave under the release scheme. While on such leave they are technically serving members of the Forces. I should like to take this opportunity of announcing that, as a special measure for the purpose of the forthcoming General Election, all serving members of the Armed Forces, whether regular or temporary, and whether men or women, including, of course, the class referred to in the Question, will be permitted, if they are wearing plain clothes, to speak at political meetings, sit on the platform, or otherwise take an active part in political proceedings in any part of the country. This concession will apply in the United Kingdom only, from 15th June, the date of Dissolution of Parliament, until the polling day in the constituency in which the activities are undertaken. Further, bona fide candidates, who are serving or have at any time since 3rd September, 1939, served in the Armed Forces, whether former Members of Parliament or not, may wear uniform while taking part in political activities in the United Kingdom whether in their own constituencies or elsewhere, during the period I have mentioned. The necessary instructions will be issued by the three Service Departments as soon as possible.
Mr. DriberģDoes the right hon. Gentleman realise that this concession, which is precisely the concession that some of us asked for on the occasion of the Debate on the Army and Air Force Annual Act, will be extremely welcome?
§ Mr. ShinwellMay I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman's statement is that Servicemen who are released for political purposes during this Election can wear uniform? Is that not in conflict with the statement that I believe was made by the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for War, that candidates seeking election could not wear uniform?
§ Sir J. AndersonThis decision which I have announced is a very important one. It is the result of very careful consideration; it is authoritative, and overrides all previous statements on the subject. I think it will be found, when hon. Members look at it in Hansard, that it is quite clear. Candidates who have served in this war may wear uniform throughout their candidature. In regard to others, persons who are not candidates, they may take part, during the period of the Election, in electoral activity, but in plain clothes only.
§ Mr. ShinwellIf the House is now in formed that all previous decisions go by the board and that a new decision has been reached at the last minute without offering facilities to debate this important principle, may I ask my right hon. Friend why this privilege—because it is a privilege to wear uniform—should not be available to any person who is engaged in the Election?
§ Sir J. AndersonI think I made it clear that there is nothing to prevent Members of the Forces from attending meetings in uniform if they do not intend to take part. Members of the Forces, if not themselves candidates, may take part in Election proceedings in plain clothes.
§ Mr. PalmerAs this answer has gone wider than my original Question, may I ask my right hon. Friend if he will clear up one small point—whether or not candidates who served in the Forces may use photographs of themselves in uniform?
§ Sir J. AndersonThat, surely, will be in accordance with the spirit of what I have stated. Candidates putting themselves forward as Servicemen may wear the uniform of their calling.
§ Mr. ShinwellOn a point of Order I must ask you, Mr. Deputy-Speaker, whether you will afford an opportunity for hon. Members to move the Adjournment of the House on this vital matter of principle.
Mr. Deputy-SpeakerI will have to consider that later. As the question of a Motion for the Adjournment has been raised, I think we should now go on to the next Question.
§ Mr. A. BevanOn this particular matter, might I ask who is responsible for reaching this decision?
§ Mr. Glenvil HallMay I put a question, Mr. Deputy-Speaker, to elucidate one part of the Minister's reply which was ambiguous?
§ 48. The following Question stood on the Order Paper in the name of Mr. Guy:
§ To ask the Prime Minister if it has yet been decided to give members of local authorities serving in the Forces an opportunity of release in order to continue as candidates at the forthcoming municipal elections.
§ Sir J. AndersonOn a point of Order, Mr. Deputy-Speaker. Am I correct in supposing that you have called Question 48?
§ Mr. Evelyn WalkdenMay I call your attention to the fact, Mr. Deputy-Speaker, that the hon. Member did not himself rise in response to your invitation?
Mr. Deputy-SpeakerI was under the impression that he did. If he did not rise, he forfeits his right to a reply.
§ Sir J. AndersonQuestion 48—
§ Mr. WalkdenOn a point of Order. Can I draw your attention, Mr, Deputy-Speaker, to the fact that the right hon. Gentleman is now out of Order? The Question has not been called, and we do not want an answer.
Mr. Deputy-SpeakerI am sorry the hon. Gentleman does not want to hear the answer. Now, I think, is the time to deal with the point of Order raised by the hon. Member for Seaham (Mr. Shinwell).
§ Mr. ShinwellI beg to ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House on a matter of definite and urgent public importance, namely, the change in Government policy, on the wearing of uniform by candidates during the Election.
Mr. Deputy-SpeakerI cannot accept that. Under Standing Orders it is laid down that:
On the day appointed for concluding Business of Supply, the consideration of that Business shall not be anticipated by a Motion of Adjournment, and no dilatory Motion shall be moved on proceedings on those days, and proceedings shall not be interrupted under any Standing Order.I should point out that there will be other opportunities to-morrow and the next day.
§ Mr. ShinwellIs it not obvious that the facilities for raising a matter of this kind are very much curtailed to-morrow and the following day, because the House is going to be prorogued, and, if this matter is to be debated, it may require to be debated at some length? Surely, in all the circumstances of this hurried and drastic change in Government policy, we ought to be permitted the opportunity for an adequate Debate.
Mr. Deputy-SpeakerI am afraid I am bound by the Standing Orders laid down by the House, and they must be kept.
§ Mr. BowlesOn a point of Order. Surely the position is, Mr. Deputy-Speaker, that you have not turned down this matter on the ground that it is not a matter of urgent public importance. You say it might interfere with Business under the Standing Orders. Surely, if a sufficient number of Members on this side of the House, or on the other side, rise in their places you could fix a time now for this matter to be debated.
Mr. Deputy-SpeakerThe Chair has no opinion where it is guided by a Standing Order so definite as in this case.
§ Sir Benjamin SmithWould it be right to say that this is a dilatory Motion under the terms of the Standing Order?
Mr. Deputy-SpeakerI gave a Ruling exactly as I read it out from the Standing Orders. We cannot possibly deal with this Motion to-day. I would remind the House again that there are opportunities on the next two days.
§ Mr. SilvermanFurther to that point of Order. Would it be in Order to move the suspension of the Standing Order to enable the House to discuss this matter?
Mr. Deputy-SpeakerThe hon. Member cannot do that. I thought he would have known that he would have to give notice of such a Motion.
§ Mr. A. BevanMay I ask the Prime Minister, in view of the seriousness of the statement made, and in view of the fact that it lies within the province of the Government, whether the Government them selves will move the Adjournment of the House now, in order to permit the House to discuss the matter? May I further ask if the Government will not permit the House of Commons to express an opinion on this matter, and if other ranks and other persons taking part in the Election wear their uniforms, what kind of disciplinary action will the right hon. Gentle man be able to take, in view of the fact—
Mr. Deputy-SpeakerI have given my Ruling on that point of Order, and having given it, it is my duty to adhere to it.
§ The Prime Minister (Mr. Churchill)I very much regret that owing to public duties I have not been in my place throughout this discussion, therefore I am not certain whether you. Sir, have given any Ruling on the subject which I venture to raise. Is it not true that this matter can be fully debated to-morrow and the day after on the Consolidated Fund Bill?
§ Dr. Edith SummerskillWhen we were anxious to put supplementary questions 1465 on this matter, Mr. Deputy-Speaker, you stopped us, because you were considering the point of Order which had been raised. We refrained and now we have lost our chance.
Mr. Deputy-SpeakerI had two or three minutes in which to consider the point of Order, and I then gave my decision on it.
§ Dr. SummerskillCan we now put further supplementary questions?
Mr. Deputy-SpeakerIf the hon. Lady disapproves of my submission, there are ways in which she can make that clear.
§ Mr. SilvermanI wish to remind you, Mr. Deputy-Speaker, that on a recent occasion when we were considering another Standing Order about the taking of his seat by a newly-elected Member, Mr. Speaker permitted a Motion for the suspension of the Standing Order to be taken that day, without notice. I therefore ask you. Sir, whether that has any bearing on the Ruling you gave that a Motion to suspend the Standing Order on this occasion would be out of Order?
Mr. Deputy-SpeakerI think I am right in saying that on the occasion to which the hon. Member refers it was a matter of practice. This is a Standing Order.
§ Mr. J. J. LawsonIn view of this change of policy—for it is a change of policy which has been announced, and the right hon. Gentleman will remember that the Secretary of State made it quite clear, not more than a week or two ago, that candidates could not wear uniform—may I ask the right hon. Gentleman—
Mr. Deputy-SpeakerI am in a very difficult position. We cannot possibly, as I understand the proceedings of the House, keep going back to the Question which was previously answered.
§ Mr. MaxtonOn a point of Order. I wish to ask you, Sir, in what form the Government will bring forward their new legislation to amend the Army Annual Act, to make this legal during the period of the Election.
Mr. Deputy-SpeakerThat is not a point of Order for me to decide. The matter can be discussed to-morrow.
§ Mr. J. J. LawsonYou have told the House, Sir, that this matter can be de- 1466 bated to-morrow. I was going to ask the right hon. Gentleman, whether the Secretary of State for War or the Prime Minister himself will be here to explain why what was explained as the law about a fortnight ago, is now not to be the law?
§ The Prime MinisterIt is evident that this matter requires to be debated. Full opportunity will be provided to-morrow or the next day at the convenience of the House. It is also evident that it cannot be debated to-day.
§ Mr. ShinwellOn a point of Order. If this matter is concerned with the Army and Air Force Annual Act how can we, on a Consolidated Fund Bill, discuss legislation?
§ The Prime MinisterOn that point of Order—if that is what we are on now—it is a matter of regulation and not of legislation.
§ Mr. Evelyn WalkdenWith regard to the point of Order put by the hon. Member of Bridgeton (Mr. Maxton), will you advise us, Sir, on how government of the people, by the people, for the people—
§ Mr. ShinwellI return to my point of Order—
§ Mr. ShinwellOn a point of Order—
§ Mr. ShinwellOn a point of Order. I am putting a point of Order to you, Sir. Can we have an answer—
§ Major Randolph ChurchillOn a point of Order—[Interruption.]
§ Mr. AttleeThe Prime Minister has said that this is a matter that must be dealt with in a regulation. I want to ask whether that regulation is to be brought before the House, and whether it will be open to Debate.
§ The Prime MinisterI can only say that there will be a full opportunity for debating this matter to-morrow or the next 1467 day on the Consolidated Fund Bill, and there could be no stronger protest which hon. Members could make than to vote against that.
§ Mr. George GriffithsPlay the game straight.
§ The Prime MinisterI beg hon. Gentlemen not to wear such disagreeable expressions. Does the House really suppose that I would take a line like this—[Hon. Members: "We do."]—if I thought it was opposed to the sense of the House? It is to be debated to-morrow and we shall profit by Debate; and it may be we shall come to a good arrangement, but personally I have formed a view, which my Government have adopted, that there would be difficulties of uniform, in bickerings between the floor and the platform. There is all that to be considered. At the same time my object in this whole business is to give fair play.
§ Mr. AttleeMay I ask whether it would be in Order to discuss the matter? I understand from the Prime Minister that the Government are to take action in this matter by making a new Regulation. I am not sure what this Regulation is and perhaps we could have it explained. Is it an alteration of King's Regulations or what is it, because my difficulty is this that we meet to-morrow [Hon. Members: "Speak up."] Cannot hon. Members keep quiet? The question is whether the House will have an opportunity, when we are discussing the Consolidated Fund Bill, of passing comments on this Regulation which, as I understand, the Government have not yet made, and the nature of which has not been described to us. I think that on a matter of this kind, with which the House is vitally concerned, we are entitled to know in what form the Government propose to take action and from you, Sir, on what occasion it is possible for this to be discussed and if necessary voted upon.
Mr. Deputy-SpeakerI have had no notice of this matter, but the Debate on the Consolidated Fund Bill is very wide, and I am sure that it is not outside the ingenuity of the Prime Minister or the Leader of the Opposition to come to some understanding whereby it can be discussed properly to-morrow. Having said 1468 that, I think we should go on with the ordinary Business. There is another statement to be made, and we have spent a long while on this matter.
§ Mr. GallacherOn a point of Order.
§ Sir Percy HarrisI—[Hon. Members: "Sit down."] I did want to help the Government.
Mr. Deputy-SpeakerIn my position I have to look after the interests of the House and not of the Government.
§ Sir P. Harrisrose—
§ Mr. GallacherOn a point of Order. [Hon. Members: "Order,"] I have not said a word on this yet. On a point of Order. [Hon. Members: "Order."] This is something different from anything yet. Please, a point of Order.
§ Mr. GallacherI am asking you to grant me a point of Order. [Hon. Members: "Sit down."] I want to put an entirely new point of Order.