§ Mr. GallacherI rise to a point of Order. My point of Order is this.
§ Mr. ShinwellWhat have you called him for? We do not want to hear him.
§ Mr. GallacherSurely, Sir, you will not deny my right to put a point of Order. Is it not possible for some of us to arrange that the Estimates be accepted without Debate and then go on to the Adjournment, when we could discuss this other point?
§ Mr. A. BevanBefore this statement is made, in view of the fact that statements of this sort are always an intrusion into Parliamentary time and are made by leave of the House, can you give us an assurance that the right hon. Gentleman is not to make a highly controversial statement now?
§ Mr. ShinwellThe right hon. Gentleman has not the leave of the House.
Sir J. GriģģThis is a statement which I undertook to make to the House before the House was dissolved on the subject of the release of requisitioned properties by the War Office in the interests of housing. At the peak the War Office held on requisition at least 80,000 properties apart from those used solely for storage. At the end of January this year the corresponding number was about 54,000. Of these about half were in the two classes which, as I have repeatedly said in this House, I regard as having priority for release. These are (a) small dwelling houses and (b) schools and colleges. Perhaps I should explain that the former class includes all houses with 12 rooms or less and also small residential flats. The other classes cover hotels, shops, offices, garages and so on which, however deserving in each individual case, clearly come behind the two priority classes in the national interest. From February to the present time we have been releasing small houses at the rate of 1,200 a month. I estimate that from now to the end of September we shall be able to release or transfer a further 7,800 properties of this class. I mention transfer as in certain cases properties released by the War Office are taken up by other Government Departments, for instance for housing men on repairing bomb damage and for other objects of national importance. During 1470 the last, quarter of the year I hope to be able to release a further 7,300 small houses which would leave only 6,000 under requisition by the Army at the end of the year. The. First quarter of 1946 as far as I can judge at present should see the virtual disappearance of this class of property from our requisition list.
I ought perhaps to mention that in our barracks and camps the British soldier is still being housed on the austerity scale of 30 square feet per man. The pre-war standard was 60 square feet. Thus the soldier himself is being called upon for a considerable contribution to the housing problem and I am sure that hon. Members and the country will appreciate this.
The position as regards schools and colleges is that we had 670 at the end of January, and that by 1st June, 140 of these had been released. The process here follows the same general pattern as in the case of small houses, with the addition that my right hon. Friend the Minister of Education provides me with lists of buildings whose early release he regards as most important from the educational point of view and that I try—with a fair measure of success—to derequisition these first or at any rate to give a firm date for their final release. Between now and September I hope to release a further 141 in this class and by the end of the year an additional 236 leaving only 153 still requisitioned at the end of the year.
Of the 27,000 buildings in the later priority classes we have since February been releasing 1,500 a month. This was at a somewhat higher rate than in the two earliest priority classes, but it represented a considerable release of properties in areas unsuitable, in the changed conditions, for accommodating troops in substantial blocks. From now on the rate will be rather smaller and certainly smaller than in the two priority classes. I estimate that we shall by the end of the year have given up a further 7,000 of these properties. Of course hon. Members will remember that strategic requirements cannot always be accurately estimated, so that troop movements may have from time to time to be retarded or accelerated, with consequent effects on demands for accommodation. But the contingencies are not likely all to be unfavourable. Anyhow, if the forecasts I have just given turn out to be correct we shall by 31st December next have released or transferred over 1471 500 schools and over 33,000 other properties out of the totals of 670 and 53,000 respectively held by us on 1st February. Hon. Members will not need to be reminded that the process of enabling the owner to re-occupy his house is a complex one. In every single case there must be a check of dilapidations by both sides before entry can be given, followed by negotiation on the compensation payable. And hon. Members will realise that the number neither of my lands staff nor of competent persons available to represent the owner is unlimited. There is one further point. The War Office does not and cannot itself undertake reinstatement. It can only compensate. Owners therefore may not be able quickly to produce labour and materials to put their premises into a state fit for the former kind of occupation.
The House would, quite rightly, condemn me if I failed to provide for the accommodation of the Army in the United Kingdom during this transitional period. Included in our requirements are the needs of those returning to this country for release and to be re-furbished for the journey to the Far East. Every effort is being made to ensure that this is done in the most economical manner so far as keeping on requisitioned properties is concerned. I think the figures which I have produced to-day show that we are being successful. Anyhow I assure the House that no one will be happier than I when our commitments in accommodation for the Army can be met by the use of W.D. property only.
§ Mr. Glenvil HallCan the right hon. Gentleman say how many of the houses of 12 rooms and under, still requisitioned, are empty?
§ Mr. HallWill it be possible for the owner to go in immediately a house is derequisitioned although he has not come to terms with the War Office as to the amount of dilapidations?
Sir J. GriģģThat is a legal question. Legally, he cannot enter until there has been an agreed statement on dilapidations. What that means in practice I do not know: I dare say it is a matter of arrangement. I do not think that owners have had any difficulty in the vast majority of 1472 cases in reaching an understanding with the War Office valuers.
§ Mr. Kenneth LindsayDo I understand that the War Office are settling with the Ministry of Education about schools?
Sir J. GriģģNot settling. I have got a list of the schools which are wanted most quickly, and I try to give a definite date when they will be ready.
§ Mr. GlanvilleIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that I had a Question down to-day about houses which have been occupied by the military authorities, in fact, for two years? Why continue to occupy them so long when they are not being used?
Sir J. GriģģThe Question which the hon. Member asked to-day was whether they were being released. I told him that they were.
§ Major LeightonDo I understand that the latest date for schools to be de-requisitioned will be during the first six months of 1946?
Sir J. GriģģI did not say that. I said that I hoped to be clear from the small houses in the first three months of 1946. I did not give a specific date for the schools, but the vast majority will have been cleared by the end of this year, and the others as quickly as possible thereafter.
§ Mr. R. J. TaylorDoes the right hon. Gentleman's responsibility cease when they are de-requisitioned? In my area we have halls that have been de-requisitioned for months, but they are still empty, because we cannot get a settlement as to the repair of damage.
Sir J. GriģģI have this much responsibility, that there has to be an agreed statement of dilapidations between the owner or the occupier, as the case may be, and the War Department. In most cases those are negotiated very quickly. If both sides are litigious, it will not be done very quickly; and that would be to nobody's advantage.
§ Mr. LoftusDo I gather that special priority in release will be given to the small type of house, of under ten or eight rooms, which is so much in demand?
Sir J. GriģģI think I have been saying that to this House on the average twice a week for the last three months.
§ Mr. HicksIn view of the fact that there are small houses requisitioned by the Admiralty, the Air Ministry and other Departments, is there any co-ordination between the Departments, to see how many houses can be made available and whether it would not be better to put the matter under one Ministry?
Sir J. GriģģI should have thought the hon. Gentleman was aware that there was co-ordination, and that his late Ministry was in charge of it.
§ Mr. HicksHas the right hon. Gentleman made his statement entirely on behalf of the War Office, and not on behalf of the other Departments?
Sir J. GriģģIt deals with the priorities in the hands of the War Office. It is very largely arithmetical in character. I can assure the hon. Gentleman—and I think he knows—that the statement of priorities is in accordance with the policy under which the Co-ordinating Committee and the Ministry of Works are operating.
§ Sir Ralph GlynWill my right hon. Friend look into the number of officers dealing with this matter in the different Departments, to see whether the number is adequate, in view of the fact that they are very much overworked?
Sir J. GriģģAt the moment I am asked to keep on more military staff. I would like the opportunity of looking into that matter before answering specifically.