HC Deb 25 July 1944 vol 402 cc563-5
8. Mr. Touche

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will consider arranging for R.A.F. and R.N. personnel transferred to the Army to be formed into separate brigades, in such a manner as to preserve their identification with the Service in which they enlisted.

25. Mr. Hugh Lawson

asked the Secretary of State for War if, in view of the decision that men transferred to the Army from other Services are not to suffer any reduction of pay, he will reconsider the decision not to apply this principle when transfers take place between corps and regiments in the Army.

27. Mr. Driberg

asked the Secretary of State for War if men who have served for several years and earned promotion in the R.A.F. Regiment and are now to be transferred to the Army, will be granted Army ranks equivalent to their former ranks.

28. Captain Plugge

asked the Secretary of State for War if he can make any statement on the transference to the Army of men now in the Navy and the R.A.F.

Sir J. Grigg

These men have been, or are being, transferred to the Army in order that the fighting strength of existing units and formations may be sustained. I sympathise with their natural desire to be formed into separate units, but to do so would be to defeat the object of the transfer. I hope that it will be possible to post the men in small groups rather than as individuals. The men transferred are being asked to express their preferences for arms and regiments, and, as far as practicable, these preferences will be followed, though some, I am afraid, are bound to be disappointed. As regards pay, the general principle is that the men transferred will not lose financially, that is, they will remain on rates no worse than their existing rates until Army service or promotion qualifies them for increases. No men are being compulsorily transferred who have N.C.O. or equivalent ranks in the other Services. As regards the Question asked by the hon. Member for Skipton (Mr. H. Lawson), these transfers are wholly abnormal, and cannot be held to affect the internal system of transfers within the Army itself.

Sir A. Southby

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that during the last war the Royal Naval Division was formed? Is it not possible to do something of the same kind now, when it is necessary to transfer naval personnel to Army service?

Sir J. Grigg

No, Sir. They are required to keep up the existing units. If new units are made the existing units will run down more quickly, and will have to be broken up, and in course of time the units formed from the transferees will run down, and will have to be broken up in the same way.

Mr. H. Lawson

If the right hon. Gentleman accepts the principle that transference from the Navy and the Air Force to the Army is not to result in loss of pay, on what grounds does he refuse to accept that principle in the case of transference from the R.A.O.C. to other units within the Army?

Sir J. Grigg

Those transfers are quite a different thing. They are transfers within the Service, for which there has always been statutory power.

61. Mr. Edgar Granville

asked the Secretary of State for Air how many members of the R.A.F. are being transferred to the Army; and what arrangements will be made with regard to pay, allowances and questions of seniority.

The Joint Under-Secretary of State for Air (Captain Harold Balfour)

It would not be in the public interest to give the number of airmen to be transferred to the Army. Airmen will receive not less than the ordinary pay and good conduct badge pay which they were drawing in the R.A.F. until such time as they qualify for higher rates on promotion. Their promotion in the Army will be governed by Army rules, but all Air Force service will reckon for seniority as though it were Army service. Family and dependants' allowances will be paid at rates not less favourable than those payable at the time of transfer.

Mr. Driberg

Does that answer mean that they will receive equivalent ranks in the Army to those that they have held, or will they have to start again from scratch, having earned promotion in the R.A.F.?

Captain Balfour

They are being transferred to the Army and will hold Army ranks but will receive not less favourable pay and allowances than they are now drawing.

Mr. Driberg

I was asking about rank.