HC Deb 21 September 1943 vol 392 cc9-11
27. Mr. W. Brown

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will inquire into a recent case in which a soldier was confined in an unheated and unlit cell in winter time for eight weeks, and his correspondence with his family burnt by an officer; and whether he will make a statement to the House about the matter?

35. Lieut.-Colonel Sir Ian Fraser

asked the Secretary of State for War whether his attention has been drawn to public concern in regard to a recent case involving the imprisonment of a gunner; and whether he will cause full inquiry to be made and inform the House what further action he proposes to take?

Sir J. Grigg

This case has been fully investigated, and disciplinary action has been taken against the officers responsible for certain unsatisfactory features disclosed by these investigations.

Mr. Brown

May I ask what is the nature of the disciplinary action taken?—[Hon. MEMBERS: "No")—and whether it is action similar to that which was taken in another case that was raised some time ago?

Sir I. Fraser

Is the story in the "News Chronicle" factually correct? If not, will my right hon. Friend deny it? If it is, will he say whether disciplinary action has been taken in these cases, as the matter is very serious?

Sir J. Grigg

I did not quite catch the Question of my hon. and gallant Friend, but I understood him to ask whether disciplinary action had been taken. The answer is "Yes." As regards the nature of the disciplinary action, I could riot, without a good deal of consideration, put myself in the position of discussing the nature of the discipline which the Army thinks fit to inflict in individual cases.

Mr. Brown

Are we not entitled to an answer to my Question? Secondly, may I ask for an assurance that we shall not find this particular officer turning up in the War Office like Captain Hi-de-Hi and Ho-de-Ho?

Commander Locker-Lampson

What are the names of these officers? Are we not entitled to know?

Mr. Pritt

Will the Minister tell us whether, in fact, the only penalties inflicted on these officers is that one was reprimanded by his Command and the other was informed that he had incurred the displeasure of the Army Council? Is not that a rather easy get-out?

Sir J. Grigg

I do not think it is an easy get-out, if the punishment is given by the properly constituted legal authority. There is no power on the part of any higher authority to increase it.

Mr. Pritt

Are those two officers still in command in the same place and commanding the same men except for their victim, who has been removed?

Sir J. Grigg

I would rather like to have notice of that. I think they probably are.

Mr. Silverman

May the House know whether the disciplinary action taken in this case has been published in Orders so that others who may be like-minded may be warned?

Hon. Members

Answer.

Mr. Molson

Do we understand that the hon. and learned Member for North Hammersmith (Mr. Pritt) is correct in what he said about the punishment?

Sir J. Grigg

I think the hon. and learned Member is broadly correct.

Mr. Hogg

Will the right hon. Gentleman say why no court-martial proceedings were instituted?

Mr. W. Brown

Is the House to understand that this sort of thing can happen in His Majesty's Army and that the officers responsible for it can get away with a simple reprimand? If that is so, there is something profoundly wrong.

Sir J. Grigg

There was a court of inquiry set up to investigate the complaints in this case. There was not a court-martial.

Mr. Shinwell

Does the right hon. Gentleman consider that this is appropriate disciplinary action, and would the same kind of action be taken in the case of a private soldier or non-commissioned officer, and in all the circumstances, having regard to the discontent expressed in the House, will he reconsider this matter?

Sir J. Grigg

What I can do and will do is to consider whether any exhortation for the future is needed. What I have said as regards this particular case is that punishment having been awarded by the properly constituted military authorities there is no power on the part of any higher military authority to increase those punishments.

Mr. Brown

On a point of Order. I shall beg leave to ask permission of the House to move the Adjournment of the House in order to discuss this matter.