§ 1. Mr. Rhys Daviesasked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he has noted the remarks of the Select Committee on National Expenditure that new experiments should be tried to reduce absenteeism in the mines; that suspensions, dismissals or imprisonment tend to defeat the object of the punishment by removing the miner from where he is most needed; and whether he intends to act upon that suggestion?
§ The Minister of Fuel and Power (Major Lloyd George)Neither my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour and National Service nor I have any desire to use the sanctions of suspension, dismissal or imprisonment. The procedure for dealing with absenteeism laid down in the Government's White Paper on Coal has now been in operation for nearly a year. It has been improved from time to time to eliminate unnecessary delay, and the records of the work of regional investigation officers show that every means of persuading and reasoning with defaulters is exhausted before in the last resort cases are recommended for court action. The possibility of adopting new methods is kept constantly in mind, but I would point out that the essence of the experiment referred to by the Select Committee on National Expenditure is its voluntary acceptance by the men.
§ Mr. DaviesWill not the Minister understand that coal miners are the last men in the world who can be compelled to do anything? Cannot he devise some scheme to appeal to their good will, as compulsion has failed?
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeI can assure my hon. Friend that for the last 12 months, since my Ministry has been formed, tremendous steps have been taken in that direction. Men are interrogated, and it is only after all this has failed that action is taken.
§ Mr. DaviesDoes not the Minister intend to take note of what the Select Committee has told him?
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeWe have been doing what the Select Committee said to me for some considerable time. The experiment referred to by the Committee is one which we have put into effect.
§ Mr. DaviesI am sorry to interrupt again, but when dealing with absenteeism will the Minister bear in mind that some colliers in hot pits lose as much as 10 or 12 lbs. a day in weight and that they are not getting sufficient rations to make good that loss and keep up their physical standard?
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeAll our investigation officers are conversant with the conditions in the pits, and all these things are taken into consideration.
§ Major-General Sir Alfred KnoxCan the Minister say what method is used in Soviet Russia when there is absenteeism?
§ Mr. McGovernIn how many cases have directors been prosecuted for absenteeism?
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeI should have to have notice of that Question.
Major Vyvyan AdamsWhy is it necessary to tolerate this absenteeism at all since when ex-miners join the Services they are not allowed to be absent without leave without something happening to them?
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeI have never excused absenteeism in any industry, nor has anyone else in this House, but I would like to point out that this is the only industry which has this limelight upon it. As I have said before, there is no evidence that absenteeism is worse in this industry than in any other.
5. Major Lloydasked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he can give the percentage of figures of avoidable absenteeism among Scottish miners over the last available period; and what steps 508 are being taken to reduce the figures of avoidable absenteeism in Scottish mines?
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeThe percentage of avoidable absenteeism among Scottish mine-workers, as recorded on the returns made by colliery companies, was 4.33 per cent. in the four weeks ended 29th May, 1943, the latest period for which figures are available. The steps which are being taken to reduce absenteeism in Scotland are similar to those in all other regions. Every effort is made by the Regional Investigation Officers to persuade offenders to attend regularly; if methods of persuasion are ineffective, persistent offenders are recommended for prosecution.
Major LloydHaving tried all reasonable methods without much success, will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman consider more drastic measures? Would it not be possible to try calling up some of these men?
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeI can only repeat that we deal with them in the way we think best, and, if that fails, we prosecute.
§ Mr. StephenCannot the right hon. and gallant Gentleman arrange with the Member who put the Question to go and work in the pits?
§ Mr. BowlesIs there any evidence at all to show that there is discontent among miners owing to their dissatisfaction at the continuance of the old financial structure of the industry?
§ Major Lloyd George indicated dissent.
§ Mr. BowlesWill the right hon. and gallant Gentleman make inquiries?
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeYes, Sir.
§ Mr. DenvilleIs it not a fact that a lot of absenteeism is due to discontent among certain inners who would prefer to join the Army?
§ Mr. R. J. TaylorCan the right hon. and gallant Gentleman state any industry in the country with which the amount of avoidable absenteeism is as bad as stated?
§ Major Lloyd GeorgeI said in answer to a previous Question that there is no evidence that this is by any means the worst industry. It is the one industry which has the limelight constantly upon it. No industry keeps figures comparable with this.