§ The Minister of Labour (Mr. Ernest Bevin)The Government have recently reviewed the man-power position in relation to the requirements of industry and the Services. Developments in the war situation necessarily reflect themselves in our man-power policy, and I wish to inform the House of a number of steps which we have decided must be taken at once to meet present and prospective needs. Great though the expansion of the aircraft industry has been already, we must add 1797 still more to its labour force. This can only be done by the further recruitment of women, who will therefore not be available for the Women's Auxiliary Services, the Women's Land Army and other Services. The Women's Auxiliary Services are nearly up to establishment. Recruitment to these Services must be reduced to a minimum. For the time being, no more volunteers will be accepted save for a few special posts—this will apply as from tomorrow—and no further age classes of women will be made subject to conscription under the National Service Acts. Existing vacancies in the Women's Services will be filled by women in the present conscribed age classes, namely, the 1918 to 1923 age classes, who have already expressed an option for these Services and by women of other classes who have already volunteered. As the numbers available are likely to exceed the number of existing vacancies, we propose to ask those women who are not required for the Services for the time being to go into aircraft factories. It is a matter of regret that these Services will no longer be open to recruitment for the time being, but in existing circumstances this is unavoidable. The Government are confident that women, even where they have expressed an option for one of the Services, will be ready and anxious to help in every way they can to provide the aircraft needed to forward the magnificent work of the Royal Air Force and the Fleet Air Arm.
In addition to the measures to which I have referred, it has been decided to extend the age of registration of women for employment up to age 50 inclusive. We shall be registering the second half of the 1924 age class of women early in August, and we shall then proceed to register the 1895 and subsequent age classes. Changes of programme in respect of other forms of production will also help to build up the labour force of the aircraft industry. Preliminary consideration too has been given to the possibility of utilising in the aircraft industry the services of increased numbers of juveniles aged 16 and 17. This is part of the more general consideration of the employment of juveniles of these ages to which I will refer later in another connection. The man-power position in a number of other industries and services besides the aircraft industry calls for 1798 adjustment in order that our resources may be used to the best advantage. The construction of further airfields to accommodate the ever-increasing armada of our American Allies is of paramount importance, and the fullest use will have to be made for this purpose by the building and civil engineering industries of the labour which has been left in these industries. Special arrangements have recently been made with the co-operation of these industries to speed up this work, and the Government are grateful for the very fine job that is being done.
Next I come to coalmining. We cannot afford to risk falling short of coal supplies, either for our requirements at home or for those which will arise as a result of our operations overseas. To refuse these demands would mean prolonging the war, with all its suffering and waste. This must not happen. We have since 1940 used our man-power, including mining labour, where in prevailing circumstances it would be best employed. My right hon. and gallant Friend the Minister of Fuel and Power, however, warned the House only a month ago that the time was approaching when new demands would mean that the man-power of the mining industry must be reinforced. The war situation has already altered since then, and it is clear that demands next year will be of such a nature that they cannot be met with the man-power now available to the industry. At The beginning of July the labour force in the coal-mining industry stood at 706,000. The net wastage is 20,000 a year; and the average man-power for the year up to next April, unless we change matters, will not exceed 700,000. An average labour force at this level will not be sufficient to meet our probable requirements. Numbers must be substantially increased, and we must make plans for an additional inflow into the industry to raise the total labour force and to make good wastage. And we want these newcomers quickly in order that they may be trained.
I put this position to the miners' delegates at their annual conference at Blackpool recently. I pointed out that little, if anything, can be expected from a further withdrawal of ex-miners from the Forces or from other industries. The withdrawal last year was substantial; indeed, it exceeded our anticipations and has enabled my right hon. and gallant Friend the 1799 Minister of Fuel and Power to continue longer than he expected without an accretion of man-power. I indicated that it might be necessary to put entry into the mines on the same footing as service in the Forces and that we might even have to go down as far as boys of 16 years of age. At present the inflow of boys is mainly from the mining villages, but this is definitely inadequate, and if directions have to be given they cannot be confined to this class of boys. These were not plans on which a final Government decision had been given at the time; the only such decision was that the man-power situation must be dealt with by some effective method. I put the matter before the delegates for their consideration, and my right hon. and gallant Friend and I have since discussed it with a deputation from the Mineworkers' Federation. One thing which I intend to do immediately is to remove the age limit from the option to enter the mines which is given to men called up for the Forces; at present this is limited to men under 25. If a sufficient number do not exercise this option, my first line of approach will be to direct men between 18 and 25, who would otherwise be called up for the Forces, to enter mining instead. Volunteers will also be accepted from among any suitable men who are not engaged on high priority work. But if these measures prove to be inadequate, I shall have no choice but to reduce the age for directions below 18. My existing powers under Regulation 58A enable me to do this if it should be necessary. I recognise that the issue of directions to youths of 18 and under would place on the Government a special responsibility for providing further training if they need to change their occupation after the war; I intend to meet this by arranging that the post-war opportunities for training shall be open to them, as they will be to members of the Forces; and this will be so whether they are directed to coalmining or to aircraft production, as may also be necessary.
Another matter which, as I think the House knows, is causing me serious concern is the shortage of domestic help in hospitals and institutions of that kind. An essential basis for any scheme to recruit additional workers must be the existence of a proper minimum standard of wages and conditions. I hope that there will be 1800 a steady extension of agreements between employers and workers in this field as in others, but this must take time, and owing to the urgency of the matter I have appointed a Committee to undertake an immediate inquiry and advise me as to minimum wages and conditions. The members of the Committee are: Sir Hector Hetherington, Principal of Glasgow University, Chairman; Mr. Darby-shire, Vice-President of the London Midland and Scottish Railway Company, and. Miss Dorothy Elliott of the National Union of General and Municipal Workers. When the report of this Committee is available, I hope to be in a position to announce the further steps to be taken.
In addition to the measures which I have indicated, there are a number of minor but very important re-adjustments that are necessary, such as the return to the sea of certain sea-going engineers at present employed ashore and the recall of certain skilled men from the shipyards to locomotive building in view of the ever increasing part which transport plays in our war effort. All these measures are necessary if we are to keep pace with the changing needs of the war. I have no doubt that they will be accepted by the House and the country in the spirit in which they have previously accepted our earlier measures for mobilising and applying to the full the man-power of the nation.
§ Earl WintertonAs one interested for many years in hospital work, might I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he will give us an assurance that this Committee which he has appointed will make their report at an early date, in view of the really desperate situation in which most municipal and private hospitals find themselves?
§ Mr. Rhys DaviesWith regard to compelling youths at 16 to go down the mines, did I understand my right hon. Friend to say that youths at 18 and over will in any case be directed but that he is considering the problem of sending youths of 16? May we take it for granted that he will not send them to the pits during the Recess, and that Parliament will have an opportunity of saying what it thinks about the proposition first?
§ Mr. BevinI do not think that problem of going below 18 will arise until Parliament reassembles; indeed, it cannot. It will arise in the case of aircraft production.
§ Mr. ShinwellIn the case of directing boys of 16 to the mines, am I to understand from my right hon. Friend's reply that no action will be taken in the sense of such direction until the House has an opportunity of discussing it?
§ Mr. BevinI cannot accept that position. In view of the Act of 1940 I am responsible, and I have never accepted the position that before I begin to exercise these directions I have to come to the House. The House charged me with the duty of finding the man-power required, and therefore I have to treat this industry on exactly equal terms with those on which I have had to treat other industries.
§ Mr. ShinwellOn a point of Order. If my right hon. Friend persists in utilising the powers he possesses in order to put into operation this innovation, this startling innovation, which is resented in many parts of the country and this House, and which has very serious implications—it is the implications with which we are concerned—will you guide me, Mr. Speaker, as to whether by means of an Adjournment Motion before the House goes into Recess, we shall have an opportunity of considering the action of the Government?
§ Mr. SpeakerThat would depend on the Leader of the House. The putting of a Motion on the Order Paper is not a matter for me.
§ Mr. ShinwellMay I put it to the Leader of the House as to whether an opportunity would be afforded before the House departs for the Recess to discuss this particular issue?
§ Mr. EdenMy right hon. Friend has made it quite plain on that aspect of the issue which the hon. Member has raised that no action can be taken before the House meets again. As regards the general position, I would suggest that we look carefully at the statement which has been made to-day, and I can deal, at the beginning of Business on the next Sitting Day, with any question on it.
Viscountess AstorIn this Committee which the Minister is setting up on the question of domestic help in hospitals, 1802 which is entirely concerned with women, would it not be wiser to appoint more women? May I tell the Minister—
§ Mr. SpeakerThe Noble Lady failed to ask her question.
§ Mr. James GriffithsOn the question of man-power in the mining industry, can the Minister first of all give any indication as to the total number of men who will be required and the proportion of boys to that number of men? May I ask him further whether, in considering the question of directing boys of 16 to the mines of this country, the Government are: approaching the matter from the standpoint of directing all boys of 16, wherever they are?
§ Mr. BevinI thought I had made it clear in my statement that I am limited at the present time. If I may make this confession, in getting lads for the mines up to now my officers have had to use considerable pressure, direct and indirect, limited largely to the mining villages, and I do not think that that is a right process. If I may answer my hon. Friend, the miner has his boy going to the grammar school and being educated as much as the boys of every other class in the community. Therefore, just as I approached the matter of the conscription of women and other classes to help the national effort, I came to the conclusion, I think a right conclusion, that I have to get these young men out of the whole community to see this particular job through, and I am not selecting miners' children only. There has been too much pressure in that limited field up to now. With regard to the second point, I cannot give the figures, because really I do not know them. The figure we have been working on up to now, including mechanisation, has been announced in the House several times by my right hon. and gallant Friend the Minister of Fuel and Power as a basic figure of about 720,000, but I cannot say what are the proportions of men and boys which will actually be needed. I have undertaken before I go any lower than 18 to see the Miners' Federation again with regard to the details of this matter.
§ Mr. R. J. TaylorMy right hon. Friend has said that he has the power to compel these boys to go into the mines. Has he any power in relation to wages?
§ Mr. BevinI am glad my hon. Friend has raised that point on wages. I would like publicly to express my regret that after I appointed the Forster Committee so long has been taken to work out the details for the scale. I am not prejudging any negotiations. It is not always on one side in these difficulties. I understand that the parties are meeting forthwith—I do not know whether to-day or to-morrow. All I can say to them is that, in view of the national emergency, I hope they will settle. It is perfectly obvious that I cannot direct a boy to the mines until it is settled. I must, through the Arbitration Court or in some other way, know what is the scale. That is the law.
§ Mr. LindsayIs the right hon. Gentleman saying that it is only now, a year after the Forster Committee was appointed, that the parties are meeting to try and put into operation the short-term recommendations? Is that really true?
§ Mr. BevinI am afraid so, as far as I can understand it. It is a problem not for me but for my right hon. and gallant Friend who deals with the wage situation in the mines. I understand that the parties in the industry have not arrived at a conclusion as to the scale. I regret it. I think it ought to have been after the work of the Forster Committee. I hope they will recognise their obligation to the State and come to a conclusion quickly.
§ Mr. TurtonWill the Minister take into account the very great shortage of labour in agriculture before stopping recruitment for the Women's Land Army?
§ Mr. BevinThe Women's Land Army are if anything above their ceiling, We have as a Cabinet had to put first things first, and the real thing that can prolong this war at this moment and hold up production is coal. Therefore, our attention has had to be turned to coal and to aircraft.
§ Mr. FosterOn a point of Order. I asked a Question on the Order Paper, No. 9, and it was stated that along with others it would be covered by the Minister 1804 in his statement. He has not referred to that Question or to the point made in the Question. Could I have an answer?
§ Mr. BevinIs the House clear that young boys under 18 years of age will not be directed to collieries while the House is in Recess? There appears to be some confusion between the Leader of the House and the Minister of Labour on this point. As the right hon. Gentleman told the House that men of 18 are immediately to be directed to the pits, will he inform the House before we rise for the Recess what instructions are going to be given to National Service officers as to how they will discriminate between these men? Also, does he realise that the expedients to which he is now having to resort may cause such industrial disturbance as to outweigh any benefits?
§ Sir H. WilliamsAs Business has been announced for to-day and the Minister's speech should have been made at the appropriate time, is it not undesirable, Mr. Speaker, that 35 minutes should be taken in discussing this other matter?
§ Mr. SpeakerThe hon. Member asked me for my opinion. I hesitate to express opinions. That is for the Leader of the House.
§ Sir H. WilliamsSurely what is now happening is a Debate of which there has been no notice?
§ Mr. SpeakerI have been watching the matter very carefully. I have made up my mind to allow one more question, and then I think we might proceed to the other Business.
§ Mr. BevinI have already said that this matter, so far as the mines are concerned, cannot operate while the House is in Recess; the machinery will not be ready. But I made it plain that that will not apply to aircraft. That must go on. I have to get the man-power now. I do not visualise any industrial disturbance on this matter at all. I believe—in fact, I am sure—that the proper direction, with rights of appeal and all the other machinery that exists in my Ministry for dealing with this matter, will work; and, 1805 if I may make a comment to my hon. Friend, I am not too sure but that in the final analysis the resulting comradeship in the mines will not help the coal industry.
§ Commander Sir Archibald SouthbyWith reference to the point raised by the hon. Member for Seaham (Mr. Shinwell) and without expressing an opinion one way or the other as to the desirability or otherwise of sending boys of this age to work in the mines, might I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he will bear in mind that certain assurances were given with regard to the age at which young people are sent on active service, and although it is of course essential that coal should be produced, might it not be desirable for the Government to reinforce any decision which they may take by securing an expression of the approval of this House?
§ Mr. BevinMight I point out that I have nor had an answer to the question I put as to whether the right hon. Gentleman will find some means of informing the House of the instructions given to national service officers in discriminating between boys of over 18?
§ Mr. BevinI am sorry I did not answer that. I cannot report to the House the special instructions given in this particular industry. Anyone directed to this industry will have all the machinery, all the rights of appeal, everything which applies to any other member of the community who is directed anywhere else. I think that covers it.
§ Mr. LindsayMight I ask whether the Leader of the House will reconsider his decision about suspending the Rule today? I think I am speaking for a large number of Members who wish to take part in the education Debate. If we cannot have a suspension after this 40 minutes' discussion it will be a great pity.