HC Deb 28 July 1943 vol 391 cc1584-7
The Joint Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of War Transport (Mr. Noel-Baker)

I am grateful to you, Mr. Speaker, for this opportunity of making a short statement to the House.

A number of hon. Members have drawn my attention to the difficulties which have recently arisen at railway stations in London and elsewhere. Several hon. Members have made proposals that the difficulties should be dealt with by the rationing of travel, by the institution of a permit system, by the sale of seats in advance, or by the provision of extra trains. My Ministry have examined these proposals with the greatest care, but they have reluctantly come to the conclusion that, as I have before explained to the House, any scheme of rationing or permits or for the advance sale of seats, would create greater difficulties than it would remove. Nor can the Government solve the problem by providing extra trains. They have every sympathy with, the desire for holidays, for fresh air and for change of scene. But they could only provide extra trains if they gave up the priority now accorded to essential war traffic. This they are not prepared to do.

With the generous assistance of the Press, they have taken every opportunity of explaining the situation to the public, and of warning the public that there can be no additional facilities for holiday travel. If, nevertheless, members of the public make long journeys to holiday resorts, they must expect to suffer great discomfort and inconvenience and they ought to realise that they are inflicting similar discomfort and inconvenience on other travellers, whose journeys are necessary in the national interest. I cannot, therefore, encourage my hon. Friends to hope, or the public to expect, that there will be any relaxation of the present restrictions, or any departure from the policy that war traffic must come first. This policy was never more essential than it will be in the next few months.

I would ask the House and the public to remember that victories abroad do not reduce the pressure on the railways here, but inevitably increase it, and that the Government must prepare for a greater strain on the railways in the early future than there has ever been before.

Mr. Robertson

While fully appreciating the difficulties which the hon. Member refers to, may I ask whether it is not the fact that the railway companies go on selling tickets long after the capacity of long-distance trains has been fully occupied, and that they subject the unfortunate people to great discomfort and have ultimately to remove them in extra trains? Would it not be more sensible to face up to the situation and realise that after four years of war factory workers do need some change?

Mr. Noel-Baker

The railway companies may not and do not provide extra trains beyond the ceiling which is allowed. They could only provide extra trains by, as I have explained in my statement, holding up essential war traffic, which the Government are not prepared to allow. That being the case, I am afraid the only solution to the problem is less holiday travel.

Sir Alfred Beit

Is it not the fact that one, of the factors which contribute to overcrowding of trains is the excessive military leave travel? Will my hon. Friend consult with his colleagues in the Service Departments as to a reduction of travel by granting leave twice a year for a fortnight rather than four times a year for a week?

Mr. Noel-Baker

We have been in constant communication with the Service Departments about that problem, and they have made great concessions to our point of view. Many members of the Services do now take a fortnight's leave twice a year instead of a week's leave four times and the Services are constantly looking for ways in which to help. If any further progress in that direction is possible, my Ministry will be delighted, but we must in the last resort accept the view of the Service Departments as to what is necessary.

Sir Ralph Glyn

Could the hon. Gentleman do something to assist the railway servants, who are put in an almost impossible position? They are working 18 hours out of the 24. Crowds of people arrive at the stations, and the railway companies have no power to refuse to sell tickets and the whole difficulty is thrust on the railway workers.

Mr. Noel-Baker

I have the utmost sympathy with the railway workers, and I should like to pay a tribute to the magnificent work which they do and the good temper which they almost invariably display, but I must say again that I am afraid the real solution to their difficulties lies with the public itself.

Sir H. Williams

Will not the Minister consider further the suggestion made by the hon. Member for South-East St. Pancras (Sir A. Beit)? Could we not offer to the troops an increase of total leave provided they took their leave half as frequently as now? It is obvious that the bulk of the railway travel in this country is being carried out by one-tenth of the public, the people who are travelling on pleasure, and those who have to travel on business are exposed to all this difficulty. There will be ample idle locomotive power in this country for the next 10 days, because munition traffic will be cut down to a minimum owing to the closing of factories, and why, therefore, should not the public have the opportunity of travelling in comfort?

Mr. Noel-Baker

Some forms of war traffic will, of course, be cut down, but perhaps they will be replaced by other forms of war traffic, and what the Government have to bear in mind is the strain on the train crews, who during the coming autumn and winter will have to bear a heavier load than ever before, and we must take every opportunity of reducing that load when it can be done. With regard to Service leave, I think troops do get a day or two extra now if they take a fortnight, but I am willing to examine that aspect of the matter again with the Service Departments.

Mr. Rhys Davies

In view of the fact that long journeys, by the nature of things, increase the pressure on the railways, is it not possible to arrange a scheme whereby holiday makers can be induced to go to near-by resorts?

Mr. Noel-Baker

We have done everything possible in that direction without holding up essential traffic or increasing the strain on train crews.

Mr. Bevan

In view of the fact that the Government are apparently not prepared to give extra train facilities, will they not make another attempt to persuade the public not to expose themselves to the appalling scenes that occur at railway terminal stations in which women and children suffer very great hardship? Will he therefore suggest that a Member of the Cabinet should broadcast a special appeal on this matter to the people?

Mr. Noel-Baker

I will put my hon. Friend's suggestion to my Noble Friend. I think the Government really have done everything they can. They have had the most generous assistance from the Press, and I think the public ought to know the situation.

Sir Irving Albery

I should like to ask whether anything can be done along the lines suggested of the railway companies being authorised to limit the number of tickets they sell to the accommodation available?

Mr. Noel-Baker

Is it difficult, because people who are determined to travel, and people who must travel on essential business always hope that if they miss one train they will get the next, but I will ask my advisers to look further into the matter.