HC Deb 20 November 1941 vol 376 cc450-5
43. Mr. Bellenger

asked the Minister of Pensions what percentage of those drawing War Service Grants are receiving 100 per cent., 75 per cent., 50 per cent., 25 per cent. and lower, of the maximum permitted allowance?

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Pensions (Mr. Paling)

I have no statistics on this point; and I fear they could not be compiled without an expenditure of time and labour which I could not authorise under present conditions.

Mr. Bellenger

Surely my hon. Friend knows exactly what allowances are being granted, and it would not entail much labour or occupy much time to count them all up?

Mr. Paling

We know what allowances are being granted, but the hon. Member is asking for them to be compiled into sets. Does he know that at the present time we are busy upon another very important job and that under present conditions it is utterly impossible to do what he asks?

Mr. Bellenger

How can the Ministry of Pensions estimate what funds they will want from the Treasury if they cannot say exactly what they are issuing?

Mr. Paling

We make a general estimate from the knowledge at our disposal.

Mr. Stephen

Would not an office boy get out these figures in about two hours?

44. Mr. Bellenger

asked the Minister of Pensions how many applications for War Service Grants have been assessed and payment authorised on the new scales among those already drawing War Service Grant on the old scales; how many new applications have been received and what percentage of these has been assessed and payment authorised?

Mr. Paling

As regards the first part of the Question I would refer the hon. Member to the answer given yesterday to the hon. Member for Rotherham (Mr. Dobbie). Up to last Tuesday night the number of new or revived claims received was 46,500; 32,500 of these had then been settled under the new conditions, grants being made in 85 per cent. of them.

61. Mr. Mathers

asked the Minister of Pensions whether War Service Grants made to wives of men in the Armed Forces will be continued to their widows, in the event of the men becoming casualties, by being embodied in the pension allowances?

Mr. Paling

No, Sir. A War Service Grant is given to enable a man, through the agency of his wife, to meet commitments which by reason of his war service he is unable to meet. Different considerations apply when the man unfortunately becomes a casualty. A wife who is in receipt of a War Service Grant at the date of her husband's death continues to receive the grant for the period of 13 weeks, during which the Service Department pays allotment and family allowance.

Mr. Mathers

Does my hon. Friend realise that, after 13 weeks, a war widow comes on to a very much lower scale of allowances? Is it possible for the Government and for this House to allow that position to continue, in view of the hardship which it entails?

Mr. Paling

That may be, but my hon. Friend knows that this scheme was not drawn up to meet such cases as that.

Mr. Evelyn Walkden

Does the wife of a soldier get more in War Service Grants than she would if she became a widow?

Mr. Paling

I should like to see that Question on the Paper.

Mr. Mathers

I will furnish the Ministry with particular cases on this point.

62. Mr. Mathers

asked the Minister of Pensions whether contractual obligations, incurred between the outbreak of war and the date of enlistment, will be fully met by the new allowances made to the dependants of Service personnel, in addition to the fixed allowances of 16s. per unit per week?

Mr. Paling

Paragraph 2 of Cmd. 6318 provides that the wife and children of a serving man are to be assured of a minimum maintenance standard after reasonable commitments have been met. The commitments referred to by the hon. Member, in so far as they are reasonable, would be admissible under the terms of this paragraph.

Mr. Mathers

The date of contraction of the commitment is an important point. Cannot the Minister meet that part of my Question?

Mr. Paling

I have already indicated that in certain circumstances commitments entered into after the outbreak of war can be met.

63. Miss Ward

asked the Minister of Pensions what alterations in the arrangements for the payment of War Service Grants to wives and dependants of Service men he proposes to make as a result of the Debate on 16th October?

Mr. Paling

I do not recollect anything in the Debate which affected the arrangements for the payment of war service grants; and no alteration has been made in those arrangements The form of application for a grant has been further simplified, and, as already announced, is now obtainable at any Post Office.

Miss Ward

My right hon. Friend announced on that date that he was prepared to consider any proposals for the amendment of the White Paper, and I am asking my hon. Friend whether any decision has been taken.

Mr. Paling

If any proposal is put to my right hon. Friend, he will consider it.

Miss Ward

Has he taken any steps to take into account any suggestions that were put forward in the Debate?

64. Miss Ward

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he can now report on the conversations taking place between his Department and the Ministry of Labour?

The Minister of Pensions (Sir Walter Womersley)

I have had discussions with the Assistance Board, with a view to ensuring that, as far as possible, an award based on need made by one Department shall not involve the adjustment of a like award already in payment by the other Department. Several types of case may arise and the details are being worked out.

Miss Ward

Thank you very much.

65. Miss Ward

asked the Minister of Pensions whether, in view of his statement in the House on 1st May to the effect that the last word had not been said on civil compensation, he has now further considered the differentiation in the scales payable between men and women; and whether he has any statement to make?

Sir W. Womersley

I am not aware that any fresh arguments against the difference in the rates for men and women under the Personal Injuries (Civilians) Scheme have been produced in addition to those which I answered in the course of the Debate on 1st May, and I have no further statement to make on this subject.

Miss Ward

Is my right hon. Friend aware that he said during the Debate that that was not the last statement on Civil Defence pensions, and that what I want to know is when he is prepared to have the case re-opened?

Sir W. Womersley

I am aware that I did make that statement, and I stand by it. I am carefully examining all the arguments that were put forward and considering, in the light of my experience in handling this particular scheme, whether any amendments can be made or not. The hon. Lady is too impatient.

Miss Eleanor Rathbone

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the latest Gallup Survey showed 84 per cent. in favour of this small but very reasonable change?

Sir W. Womersley

I do not take any notice at all of Gallups.

66. Sir I. Albery

asked the Minister of Pensions, with reference to changes in family allowances, what the procedure for adjustment will be in cases of men serving in the Armed Forces who, whilst not getting more than 4s. a day, have voluntarily made an allotment larger than the minimum and who are still being debited with contributions greater than should now be necessary?

Mr. Paling

If a man whose rate of pay does not exceed 4s. a day is making a voluntary allotment in excess of the qualifying allotment laid down for Army cases as appropriate to his rate of pay, the excess amount will not be taken into account in assessing a War Service Grant, and the man may either allow his wife to receive the additional benefit or reserve it for himself by reducing his allotment to the qualifying amount.

67. Mr. T. Smith

asked the Minister of Pensions whether his attention has been drawn to the decision given in the Bristol County Court, that injury under the Personal Injuries Scheme does not include shock, unless accompanied by physical injury; and whether he proposes to take any action to remove this anomaly?

Sir W. Womersley

My attention had not been drawn to the decision referred to. As I have previously informed the House, compensation may be paid under the Personal Injuries (Civilians) Scheme, where, as a result of enemy action, a person sustains concussion of the brain, whether there is visible injury or not, or where a person sustains nervous shock of a com-motional character associated with blast, burial among debris or some similar severe incident. In either case the patient must be medically certified as incapable of work.

Mr. Smith

Will my right hon. Friend refresh his memory by reading the Law Reports on this case and particularly the comments of the learned Judge, because, if he does, I think he will find that there has been an omission from the Personal Injuries Scheme which ought to be remedied?

68. Mr. R. J. Taylor

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he is aware that the widow of a Service man without children is only in receipt of a 15s. per week pension, but when she receives her widow's pension under the contributory pensions scheme her Service pension drops to 5s. per week; and will he consider the matter from the standpoint of granting Service pensions irrespective of any pension under a contributory scheme?

Sir W. Womersley

A widow's pension under the Royal Warrant is granted irrespective of any right of claim under the Contributory Pensions Acts, but it is provided in those Acts that a widow shall not be entitled to receive a widow's contributory pension if she is in receipt of a widow's war pension.

Mr. Taylor

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider the possibility in these cases of making no deductions which reduce the widow's pension below the minimum of food and clothing as recently laid down?

Sir W. Womersley

My hon. Friend is mistaken in thinking that I make any reductions; I do nothing of the kind. I grant the pension under the pensions Warrant, and the question of the contributory widow's pension is dealt with under Section 14 of the National Health Insurance and Contributory Pensions (Emergency Provisons) Act, 1939. It has nothing to do with me.

Mr. Bellenger

Does not my right hon. Friend consider that at any rate there is an anomaly created by this legislation, and is it not possible for Departments to act in collaboration to remedy such injustices?

Sir W. Womersley

I am too old a hand to be drawn by a Supplementary Question like that.

Mr. Mathers

Is the Minister aware that whereas a soldier's wife with five children is provided with £2 16s. for food and clothing in addition to having her rent and other fixed commitments met, when she becomes a widow she receives only £2 12s. 3d., out of which she has to meet every commitment?