HC Deb 27 May 1941 vol 371 cc1696-8
27. Mr. Maxton

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many homes of persons associated with Scottish Home Rule associations have been visited by the police; how many persons were taken to police stations and interrogated; and what were the reasons for these proceedings?

Mr. Johnston

I assume that the Question refers to the execution on 3rd May of search warrants obtained by the criminal authorities under Defence Regulation 88A. The homes of 17 persons, some of whom are known to have had association with Scottish Nationalist organisations of one kind or another, were visited by the police. Eleven persons were asked to accompany the police to police stations and agreed to do so. As regards the reasons for this action, which was not taken because of any connection or sympathy with Scottish Home Rule, I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to him by my right hon. and learned Friend the Lord Advocate on 13th May.

Mr. Maxton

I read the Lord Advocate's Answer with very great care, and he did not give any reason at all for the arrest of these men. Does the right hon. Gentleman tell me now that there were other reasons for visiting these men's homes than their connection with the Scottish Home Rule Association?

Mr. Johnston

Yes, I did say so. I hope the hon. Member will assist in the matter. It would be most improper to have any political interference with legal processes.

Mr. Buchanan

Will the right hon. Gentleman say what movement these men were connected with which led to this being done?

Mr. Johnston

The point is that already actions have been taken and convictions have been secured in two cases under the Firearms Act, and another case is pending.

Mr. Maxton

May I ask you, Sir, in response to the right hon. Gentleman's appeal to me, whether I am doing something improper when I raise in this House the question of wholesale raids on private citizens? Am I to be accused of interfering with judicial processes? Is it outside my range as a Member of this House to raise this matter?

Mr. Speaker

I did not hear anything improper.

Mr. Maxton

Then it is my stupidity again.

Mr. Leach

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his carefulness in this matter is most reassuring?

28. Mr. Maxton

asked the Lord Advocate what charge was preferred against the Scottish Nationalist, who was charged under the Firearms Act; whether he has been tried; and, if so, what was the sentence imposed?

The Solicitor-General for Scotland (Mr. J. S. C. Reid)

The charge was a contravention of the Firearms Act, 1937, Section 1. The accused pled guilty on 14th instant and was fined £20 with the alternative of three months' imprisonment, the firearms and ammunition being forfeited. Fourteen days were allowed in which to pay the fine.

Mr. Maxton

Could the hon. and learned Gentleman give some idea of the nature of the charge under Section 1 of the Act? His predecessor led me to believe that this man was preparing an armed rebellion against England. Was that the charge that was let off with a fine?

The Solicitor-General for Scotland

The charge related to the possession of two Service rifles, five revolvers and 326 rounds of ammunition without certificates. There were also found on this man's premises two bayonets, nine dummy rifles, bandoliers, cartridge cases, holsters and other equipment, which were not the subject of the charge.

Mr. Maxton

I am not asking what was found. This man has taken too seriously the propaganda of the Government that it is right to fight for national independence by force of arms. He thought that what was right for Czechoslovakia was right for Scotland. Was the charge against this man one of having firearms without having a licence?

The Solicitor-General for Scotland

That is so.

29. Mr. Maxton

asked the Lord Advocate whether he is aware that Mr. Arthur Donaldson, who was arrested on 3rd May under 18B of the Defence Regulations for his activities on behalf of Scottish national independence, was arrested by a combined force of policemen and soldiers; what was the reason for it; and whether he proposes to make a practice of using armed forces to support the police in civil cases?

The Solicitor-General for Scotland

No, Sir. The apprehension was effected in the normal manner by the police. Donaldson was not detained for activities on behalf of Scottish national independence but because he was believed to have been recently concerned in the preparation or instigation of acts prejudicial to the public safety and the defence of the realm.

Mr. Maxton

Does the hon. and learned Gentleman say that the military were not present?

The Solicitor-General for Scotland

The military were not present.

Mr. Maxton

Will the hon. and learned Gentleman make further inquiries, because I have it on the very best authority that there were six policemen and four soldiers at the arrest of this one man, and this is the first time that the Government have been able to concentrate numerical superiority of force?

The Solicitor-General for Scotland

I should like to make it plain that, apart from serious rioting or grave public calamity, the military are not and cannot be employed to support the civil power. My information is that they were not so employed. If the hon. Member will give me his information, I will have it looked into.

Mr. Maxton

Will the hon. and learned Gentleman make further inquiries?

Mr. Speaker

The Solicitor-General for Scotland has promised to do so if the hon. Member gives him his information.

Mr. Maxton

No, he should do it without my information.