HC Deb 13 March 1941 vol 369 cc1400-5
12. Mr. R. J. Taylor

asked the Minister of Pensions whether arrangements will now be made for a soldier's wife, who was receiving assistance from the War Service Grants Committee, to continue to receive the same assistance after the death of her husband?

The Minister of Pensions (Sir Walter Womersley)

I am glad to inform the hon. Member that arrangements are already in force for the continuation of a war service grant to a wife during the period of 13 weeks for which the Service Department pays allotment and family allowance after her husband's death.

Mr. Taylor

Will the right hon. Gentleman further consider this matter having regard to pre-war commitments which have been entered into by families which would justify these allowances being continued until those commitments have been met?

Sir W. Womersley

It is because of my knowledge of the commitments of these widows that I put forward the proposition that these allowances should be continued for 13 weeks, in order to give them an opportunity of readjusting their circumstances. I am always prepared to consider any proposition which is put forward, but I cannot hold out any hope of dealing with the matter in the way the hon. Member suggests.

Mr. Taylor

But does the Minister say that the commitments cease at the end of 13 weeks?

13. Mr. Cocks

asked the Minister of Pensions whether in view of the increased cost of living he is considering increasing the pensions of 100 per cent. disabled ex-Service men disabled in the last war who are entirely dependent on their pensions?

Sir W. Womersley

No, Sir; the ex-Service men in question are in receipt of pensions based on a cost-of-living figure which is actually higher than that of today. In any case it would not be practicable to single out one cross section of disability pensioners for special consideration.

14. Mr. Beverley Baxter

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he is now prepared to reconsider the present system of refusing military pensions to dependants of men in the Fighting Services killed while on leave whether from enemy action or any cause not arising from gross carelessness?

Sir. W. Womersley

Cases of serving men on leave and killed by enemy action are already dealt with either under the Service Warrants or the Personal Injuries (Civilians) Scheme as may be appropriate to their case. As regards accidents, there are borderline cases which present difficulty, and I am considering the whole question of injuries sustained when not on duty. I must point out, however, that the position of a soldier when he is absent from his unit on leave and his movements are under his own control does not differ from that of a civilian, and an accident sustained in circumstances quite unconnected with military service cannot be regarded as attributable to such service; consequently, I have no power to award compensation for the results thereof under the Royal Warrant.

Mr. Baxter

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that this attitude is causing the greatest distress in the country? Is he not aware—as I am sure he is—that in the last war the dependants of all soldiers who went to France and were killed there were given pensions, regardless of how the soldiers met their death; and now that the battlefield is transferred to this country, does not that suggest to him that the same conditions should apply here? Further, will the right hon. Gentleman consult the heads of the Service Departments, who, I can assure him, take a very different view from his?

Sir W. Womersley

My hon. Friend is not quite correct in saying that the dependants of a soldier who happened to be serving abroad in the last war and met with a fatal accident in any circumstances whatever received compensation. Certain matters, such as negligence, were taken into account.

Mr. Ellis Smith

Well, well.

Sir W. Womersley

It is all very well to say "Well, well," but we want to make the position clear. I have already informed my hon. Friend that I am giving the most careful consideration to these borderline cases, which have caused difficulty, there is no question about it. On the other matter, I am prepared to consult the heads of the Service Departments, although from the information which I have received I am not aware that they are at all unanimous in the view which he expressed.

Mr. Baxter

Does my right hon. Friend consider the case of a soldier returning from leave and killed by a train a borderline case?

Mr. Magnay

Before the right hon. Gentleman replies, will he further consider the case which I put before him of a man in Liverpool who, while returning to his camp, was killed in the black-out and in the vicinity of the camp? Is that a borderline case?

Sir W. Womersley

Of course, those are borderline cases, and they are the kind of cases I am considering.

Flight-Lieutenant Ralph Etherton

Will my right hon. Friend give special attention to the case of Regulars, because Regulars entered the Services many years ago, in some cases on the basis that they would receive this pension by way of deferred pay, and it is particularly hard in the case of Regulars?

Sir W. Womersley

I am quite prepared to consider the cases of both Regulars and those who joined for the duration of the war.

Mr. Woolley

If my right hon. Friend makes any decision, will it be applied retrospectively?

Sir W. Womersley

I had better not give an answer to that question without consideration.

Sir Percy Harris

Will my right hon. Friend consult the Pensions Advisory Committee on the subject?

15. Mr. J Griffiths

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he is aware of the hardship caused to parents whose sons are killed by enemy action on account of the failure of the Personal Injuries (Civilians) Scheme to provide a payment to cover funeral expenses; and whether he will reconsider this question with a view to providing for such payment?

Sir W. Womersley

Under the improvements in the Personal Injuries (Civilians) Scheme announced by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer on 18th December last, a payment of £7 10s. towards funeral expenses may now be made to any relative or friend responsible for funeral arrangements in the case of a Civil Defence volunteer who is killed on duty. In the case of any gainfully-occupied person killed by enemy action, the same grant towards funeral expenses may now be made to a widow or to any wholly dependent relative, including a parent, who has been regularly maintained by the deceased in his or her home. These provisions apply to privately arranged funerals. Arrangements have also been made by the Ministry of Health whereby in cases of deaths resulting from "war injuries" or "war service injuries" State funerals can be arranged by the local authority without any charge on the relatives.

Mr. Griffiths

Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that in cases—of which I have sent him instances—in which parents have not been granted a pension and have been refused any allowance towards the expense of the funeral they naturally contrast this treatment with the fact that if the man had been killed at work, there would have been at least a grant towards the funeral expenses; and since this matter is causing some dissatisfaction, will he reconsider his decision?

Sir H. Womersley

I am quite prepared to consider any proposition put forward, but I would like the hon. Member to submit his cases to me quickly, because I want to get the question of a revised scheme cleared up as soon as possible.

Mr. Griffiths

I have sent the cases on to the right hon. Gentleman.

16. Mr. Griffiths

asked the Minister of Pensions what standard is used to adjudge whether parents of those killed by enemy action are entitled to a pension under the Royal Warrant and the Personal Injuries (Civilians) Scheme?

Sir W. Womersley

Under both the Royal Warrant and the Personal Injuries (Civilians) Scheme, I am required, in determining need, to have regard to the extent of support given to the parent by the deceased person, and consequently no one rigid standard is possible or desirable.

Mr. Griffiths

When parents receive from the right hon. Gentleman a letter indicating that no immediate pension will be granted, they are told that should their circumstances change, they can apply again. May I ask what change in circumstances does entitle them to make a renewed application? Will he give some indication which will help parents in deciding whether they should renew their application?

Sir W. Womersley

Usually it is stated on the notice that they can apply again if their circumstances change, in accordance with the Regulation laid down. If I can make it any clearer, I shall be pleased to do so, because J want it to be fully understood that they have established their right to a pension as and when the circumstances allow of it.

Mr. Griffiths

Would there be any objection to indicating to Members of this House the standard by which the right hon. Gentleman judges these further circumstances?

Sir W. Womersley

I am going to ask the House to be rather generous in this matter. I feel that I can do more justice in these cases by being given a reasonable amount of discretion, and I do not want to lay down an exact standard. I think that will be in the interests of the people concerned.

Mr. Mander

Does the right hon. Gentleman intend to consult his Advisory Committee on any of these questions?

Sir W. Womersley

When I have a meeting of the Advisory Committee, I shall consult them on this and many other things.

Mr. Mander

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I have been a member for a considerable time and that the committee has never met once?

Sir W. Womersley

The hon. Member may be aware that his predecessor attended 15 meetings of this committee, at great inconvenience to himself, and that I promised the committee not to call them together again until it was necessary to do so.