HC Deb 01 July 1941 vol 372 cc1248-52
Sir K. Wood

I beg to move, in page 4, line 10, after "be," to insert: "notified to him as soon as possible and shall be"

This is to meet a suggestion made in Committee and to ensure that the tax- payer shall be told the amount of his postwar credit as soon as it has been ascertained and recorded, and that he shall not have to wait until the sum is actually credited to him after the war.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. White

I beg to move, in page 5, line 24, at the end, to insert: On the death of a husband or wife, either of whom is entitled to repayment of a credited sum, the Commissioners of Inland Revenue may, at their discretion, make a payment in whole or in part of the sum credited to the survivor I am moving this Amendment in order to draw attention to a case which is admittedly of small scope but is not, I feel, without importance. The Amendment is designed to deal with a case where on the death of a husband or wife who has one of these credits the survivor might well be left in the position where that credit was the only asset. It seems to me that in those circumstances it would be a proper thing, in the generality of cases, that the Inland Revenue authorities should have discretion to make a payment from the credit of such amount as they might think reasonable. In an extreme case someone who enjoyed the benefit of this credit from the Crown might otherwise be driven to go to public assistance for relief. I think I have said enough to reveal what is in my mind and I hope the House will not think it was too trivial a point to raise.

Mr. Harvey

I beg to second the Amendment.

I believe the principle of the Amendment will commend itself to the whole House, and I would point out that it is not open to the objection that it will lay a great burden on the Exchequer. It gives only a discretionary power to the Commissioners of Inland Revenue to meet hard cases. There are people like doctors whose whole income is derived from their practice or their profession and ceases absolutely on their death, and it would be exceedingly hard in such cases for the widow not to be able to go to the Commissioners of Inland Revenue and apply for at least a part of the sum credited to her husband to be available for funeral and other immediate and urgent expenses. I hope very much that the Chancellor may be able to accept this Amendment.

Sir Frank Sanderson (Ealing)

In supporting the Amendment, I would say how much I appreciate the difficulties which people encounter in the cases of which we have had illustrations, but apart from those cases I cannot help feeling that there is a great deal of justice in this Amendment, and if the Chancellor of the Exchequer could accept it his action would meet with the approval of the whole House and of the country.

Captain Crookshank

Hon. Members speak very mildly about this small amendment, but we are discussing the Finance Bill, and I should think that some of the predecessors of my right hon. Friend the Chancellor who belonged to the Liberal party would have had a fit at the suggestion that the Inland Revenue authorities should be given power to make discretionary payments. That responsibility has not so far come within their functions and it is one which they would not lightly wish to assume. As I understand it, what the hon. Member asks is that we should find some way by which this money which is to the credit of her husband can be paid out to the widow if she is left in difficult circumstances. Of course things would never end there. The plea of sickness would come next, and then it would be a question all along the line of where we should stop. A case of desperate disease, like tuberculosis or cancer, would be brought up next time as a ground for an extension of the concession which had been given in the case of death.

I am not sure that the hon. Member has it clearly in his mind that the credit will not be put down until the end of the war. There might be the case when; there is one amount credited, and another where the husband and wife have separate amounts credited, and if there are separate amounts credited presumably the survivor could draw on his own account at once. On the other hand, if the husband and wife have these repayments of Income Tax coming in under one credited amount, it is a little difficult to see in logic or common sense that that asset should be dealt with in any different way from any other asset which passes at death. I do not know what answer the hon. Member himself would give to that point, but I hope that he will reflect upon it before the next Finance Bill comes forward, and having reflected upon it will appreciate the more readily why, while it may seem to be a little request that he is making, my right hon. Friend is yet unable to grant it.

Sir F. Sanderson

Could the right hon. and gallant Gentleman say what would be the attitude of the authorities if the man and wife agreed to have an amount credited in their joint names in such a way that in the event of death of the one the credit would go to the other?

Captain Crookshank

I am afraid I have not had brought before my attention the possibility of a joint account, nor in the absence of the Law Officers could I say what would be the legal position on the death of one of the persons concerned until the estate, small though it might be, was completely settled according to the existing law.

Mr. White

I am much obliged to the right hon. and gallant Gentleman for his reply, and I would remark that some of the circumstances which he has mentioned were not altogether absent from my mind. It was for that reason that I did not make the Amendment absolute, but left things in the discretion of the Commissioners of Inland Revenue. I am perfectly familiar with the "encroachment of the tide" argument, which is one the Treasury are never at a loss to bring forward to meet almost any circumstances.

Captain Crookshank

Already to-day we have had experience of what happens.

Mr. White

The Treasury always has that argument in readiness. The right hon. and gallant Gentleman did say one thing which gave me some comfort, although I am not sure whether I have correctly understood it. He said that if there were two accounts the survivor could draw upon his own account. If the amount is not to be credited until after the war how would that be possible—though I certainly did understand the right hon. and gallant Gentleman to say that the survivor could draw upon it.

Captain Crookshank

I must make that point clear. Nothing could happen until after the war. The amounts are not credited till then.

Mr. White

Having regard to the circumstances in which this discussion is taking place and the elucidations we have had I regretfully ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.